Required for stage 2, no. As far as I know at least. IIRC the 2 other guys waiting for their motors, Frink and RX-Heven, have down pipes. Frink has catted FI DPs and I’m not sure what RX-Heven has but I think he’s planning on doing headers when he can afford them. As far as the gain delta between the headers and DPs, I can’t give you a figure but you’ll definitely get better gains from the headers, especially down low where the DPs don’t do much. I remember hearing something like 50awhp gains with the headers when coupled with the ported manifold and tune. As far as the DPs go, it’s something like 25-30awhp. I’m sure somebody can jump in and give more accurate figures. When you throw a built motor into the mix with a stage 2, or even a stage 3 supercharger whenever it gets released, your overall gains will just increase. Catted DPs also use the stock precat location for the cats, yet another reason the heat gets trapped up by the engine. The cats on the headers are further down the line, not sure how much further though. Plus I’ve heard the sound is just incomparable. To me, the headers are a no-brainer. Just because the block is sleeved and built for way more power doesn’t mean the air flow can’t limit the end power output.
Why couldn’t they have let us know that they were making timing upgrades when my passenger side adjuster went out 2 months ago… And I wound up doing the full service…
The full motor program has been going on for over 4 years. I can’t even start to tell you how many roadblocks and huge obstacles that have been overcome. The pictures don’t show all the small things that also need to go into the builds like block support additions, coolant and oil passage upgrades the list goes well beyond what I can list here.
Part of the motor program is the timing parts. Timing components, many of them are still getting tested and possibly in their second or maybe third revision. Each revision making them better and better. Some of them are getting close to releasing them to the public, it’s hard to talk about any of it till you know where each part is, in its development and testing.
It’s a tough balance in making then testing products, how long do you test? When do you say something to the public? Look at the failures of the other companies that trying to sell products before the products are even working, let alone on one car. If you buy a JHM product one of the things people have come to know is that, the product you’re getting has actually been tested and tested on more than one JHM car. It’s been abused, it’s been beaten and it’s been battered. JHM actually knows how it works and what it takes to make it fail. Only then can you talk about a product let alone sell it.
To answer the question “why wouldn’t they have let us know?” For all the reasons above and that when you’re making parts you don’t always know how it’s going to work out. Telling someone you’re making a part is great, until it takes well beyond what people think is a reasonable time to wait. Let alone the point where people get upset parts are not available yet. If you tell a customer you’re making timing components, they might now be waiting on you rather than getting the work done. Lessor companies can’t afford to do it right so they push out an unfinished or untested product, we have all seen the terrible results. Only the customers loose when that happens.
I have always liked companies that actually put money back into the platform. Know that every time you get a spark plug or an oil change kit from JHM that you’re supporting yourself. They pump all the profits back into the platform. I always thought that was the way to do it. It’s hard, because when you invest all the money back into the platform you definitely want the people to know about it, you just have to wait for the right time.
Wouldn’t it make sense to go headers if the engine if coming out anyway? In for a penny, in for a pound. Sad fact: I have yet to hear headers in person 
They sound great on video though!
That’s what I would do. If I were to go to Stage 2 (or 3 if it’s available sometime in 2015), I’d go with headers as well. And a whole bunch of other things too 
…and honestly after stage 2/built motor…what is 3k more?
Yeah, if only 2 years ago they had notified the Audi forums that they were offering a myriad of upgraded timing components.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/486552-New-from-JHM-Timing-Chain-Service-Kits-for-the-B6-B7-S4-4-2L-V8!
that’s a slippery slope
Oh I know, but that’s an extremely slippery slope to look at modding. Might as well go stg 3 as well haha.
I’m just asking if on a stg 2 car, if the headers are a real game changer. Say you’re in for $20k for stg 2, that $3k still 15% of the build cost to add headers (and the production time). I added them to stg 1 without even questioning it, loved them, but the bottom line performance gains may or may not be there. Most F.I. cars don’t beit that much from headers as NA cars do.
The RS4 headers are WORLDS better than the S4 headers. But JHM headers make a ton more tq and flow better than the RS4 headers do. But I doubt a Stg 3 RS4 is going to use custom headers.
Also, Mdubz, the power difference you’re referencing on stg 1 w/ & w/o headers is mostly caused by the tuning. With headers Count keeps the throttle plate open slightly longer, thus more hp. And this is all b/c of the weakness in the stock motor. Sure the headers are going to make more torque, but a blown 4.2 with catless dp’s isn’t a joke in the tq dept either.
I will say, the headers do sound incredible though. I personally still want to go in a ride in a header + nitrous car. People forget just how menacing of a combo that is and a pretty good bargain as well.
Edit: damn, saki beat me to the slippery slope. I have a tendency to open tabs and don’t get around to replying for a while lol.
Ya and could be the difference between a divorce or not…lol I believe that if you have the coin for the initial cost of what…25k or more, you have a spare 3k laying around. I know for me it would end in divorce… Lol
I’d simply budget for a built motor, stage2/3 depending on availability (which includes an intercooler I believe), headers, taller 6th gear, timing/guides refresh, that oil thingy for the supercharger (I’d like to track the car) and call it a day.
One thing I’m curious about is inner diameter for the exhaust on the S4 at stage 2 or 3. Will JHM recommend going to 2.75" for the S4 for the higher stages? I’m at stage 1 and still on 2.5". Just curious.
well, the engine is out, so that’s the biggest cost impairment of headers.
On an NA car, just modifying:
headers = $2750 + $1250 for engine RR
downpipes = $1000 + $300 linstall
Notice the downpipes are expensive? That’s because I’m not using aluminzed steel or something cheap. Using top quality stainless, since that’s what a big part of the cost of the JHM headers goes to. People who compare the headers cost to the cheapest downpipes are fooling themselves. Lets look at top quality like Fast Intentions.
So we are at $4000 vs. $1300. That’s a big difference. That’s $2700. You will save probably a few bucks a year on gas with the headers as we’ve seen when surveying headers owners on fuel efficiency so that helps.
If you compare WITHOUT install costs, for a motor build situation where it’s already coming out, it gets compelling
$2750 vs. $1000 = $1750 and again, you will have the fuel savings from headers to help. This is pretty much a no brainer, because the headers are light years better than the stock manifold in the B67…which is a performance killer.
On the RS4 it’s a non issue…we have a tri-y header from the factory, and the gains to be had frrom creating something wonderful like the longtube JHM B67 headers are not worth it. JHM looked into this.
Lol, priorities priorities. Luckily I’m not married and my gf doesn’t even want to know what I’m spending.
nitpicking here, but exhaust is typically tubing which is measured by OD and wall thickness. So the standard 2-1/2" exhaust everyone runs is 2-1/2" OD with a 16 gauge (1/16") wall, so ID is 2-3/8"
C’mon beem. If you’re gonna be nitpicky and feel like doin math, do some volumetric flow calculations based on the CFM of the motor for stg 2/3 and what size exhaust is needed.
I seriously always loved seeing you busy out and break it down into straight numbers like you often do.
I think that people who have strict emissions laws should seriously consider the nitrous kit as a suitable alternative to the supercharger.
But if/when I ever go fully built motor, I will certainly look to have the SC and nitrous, as long as JHM will let me.
I want to hear them in person sooo bad. Maybe I will go to the JHM open house and BBQ this year. I’m sure the videos just don’t do the headers justice. I just imagine the whole tone of the exhaust changing with the equal length pulses.
Doing it right is doing it the way you want, not what anyone else wants you to do. The car will be loud enough without headers, and after all, this is my wife’s car and she already thought it was too loud and stinks.
Will not be a requirement. Boost forgives many sins.
Agreed
Affording them is not an issue, it was the additional noise (wife’s concern) and power return on the investment (my concern). I inquired about having them installed since my motor was going to be out anyways. Besides the uncertain availability of the headers at the time, it didn’t really seem worth it to me with the gains I’d see, especially since the exhaust retains a high-flow cat on each side. Fifty horsepower, give or take, is a big gain when you only make ~340, but as the power climbs, or almost doubles in my case, the percentage gain drops. Yes, every bit counts, but it counts for less with the more you have. I’m not chasing tenths on the drag strip and there is a point when too much power will actually hinder ones ability to drive a car fast around a racetrack (says the guy building an 850 hp 2300 lb street legal prototype ::)). For the record, my (wife’s) car already had about every goody you could bolt onto it, including FI downpipes with high-flow cats and their catback with resonators.
When we get the car back and after I take it to 034’s dyno, I’ll post a proper intro.
Preaching to the choir.
Completely understandable. What I meant was, that if I had known that they were making upgraded timing components (adjusters) I probably wouldn’t have rushed to get the car back on the road so quickly. Of course I’m sure my updated timing parts will do just fine throughout the rest of ownership.