You read Jalopnik. We get it.
They’d better do something bold. Dinan, the most reputable BMW tuner, is out with their tune for the F80 M3. They’re saying it makes 484 HP from the factory.
Max HP Gain 42 @ 6000 RPM
Max Torque Gain 47 @ 3500 RPM
Peak Horsepower 516 @ 6000 RPM
Peak Torque 489 @ 3500 RPM
BMW Factory Rated HP 425 (484 Measured)
BMW Factory Rated Torque 406 (446 Measured)
Dinan is the weak sauce of the industry I thought. Like stasis.
Picking up 30 peak hp and 40 tq is surprisingly low. Are these turbos running serious boost form the factory?
I think Dinan is the only one that will be around in 20 years. So nothing like Stasis, basically. I think 17 year olds who don’t have an M car aren’t Dinan fans. Adults who want a reliable DD with a prudent amount of horsepower and can drop $10k on doing it right (and doing it only once) – they love Dinan.
Adjust your expectations. Software doesn’t make nearly the amount of power on an S4 as everyone thinks it does. It takes a lot of modding to coax out all of the power. Dinan just tells you up front, like I did in my other post. The BMW 335i crowd likes getting started for a $500 box, and working up to the back ended costs of cheap modding.
I don’t know about that. My Dinan SCed E46 M3 made roughly 100 additional BHP over stock. Granted the kit was about as expensive as an HPF turbo kit, but it did have a solid warranty.
You’re talking bollocks. And in case you don’t know, weak sauce means weak…as in not big results. Their reputation saw them deliver somehwat muted gains well below the car’s limits in order to remain ‘warranty compliant’, and keep them in bed with BMW. That relationship apppears to have dissolved, but the company may not have changed its strategy.
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30 hp out of a twin turbo V6 is fucking pathetic, unless the factory pushed it to within an inch of its life, which is why I asked about factory boost and turbos
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why are you talking about the supercharged B8 S4??? We’re talking about twin turbo M3.
As for the S4, I think it gets about 60hp from a tune and pulley. Want to argue about that?
If a car is picking up 6-7 MPH of trap speed, it’s picking up about 60 hp. Simple. If stock is trapping 106-107, and modded with tune and pulley is trapping 112-113, that’s about 60 hp. You can’t argue dynamics. You can play dyno games all day though.
Yes, this is a 335i pushed within an inch of its life.
I would guess the M3/4 has beefier internals and different turbos compared to a 335i to be able to handle more boost reliably. A similar difference with an A3 vs S3. These car makers all leave something on the table to achieve a reliability margin, can’t imagine BMW would push a mass produced engine that hard.
The N55 in the F3x 335i is a single variable geometry turbo while the S55 in the F8x M3 is a true twin turbo. Definitely forged internals to handle the higher power/torque and higher redline. Sounds also like BMW did a great job with the cooling/intercooler.
We’re sort of going into uncharted territory for street cars. Can a 2.0L block put out 1000 HP? Well, it technically can in a Formula1 engine but you have to rebuild it after every race. Even they restrict it to a specific fuel output per hour to force teams into a box.
???
+1…WTF does an N55 have to do with an F1 engine?
It’s mostly about how much power can you squeeze out of a 3.0L inline six based on a 335i with new internals. It’s making 480 HP stock on California 91. Richen the fuel mix (increase carbon emissions) and you get 530 HP. There’s not a whole lot left to get out of it from software alone, other than mapping high octane.
There’s a reason Audi dumped Stasis and BMW dumped Dinan and Mercedes went whole hog on AMG with AMG S models. The factories are going to be the ones making money selling 500 HP cars in volume, not the tuners. The volume is going to go from APR level to Hennessy level - very boutique. Like two assholes who have the same AMG S and one guy has to be negligibly faster for another $10k.
Not sure I agree with the whole tuners aspect not playing a relevant role anymore.
Yes, factories can make easy power now. No, they are still very restricted–unlike tuners.
Tuners do not have to comply to all CAFE regulations, and tuners are not obliged to get an entire line up of cars to obtain a specific co2 emissions & MPG metric as auto manufacturers would. The limitations remain to be the same as they always were:
What is the block/bottom end/head studs able to handle, how much boost can the turbo/sc push and what is the heat capacity of the stock cooling system. You quickly reach a point where even modified intercoolers/heat exchangers/oil coolers/whatever are insufficient for a specific usecase. Note that even the Z/28 over heats after a few laps (R&T reports 3 to 5 laps before oil temps go over 300f)–and that is a car with “optimized aero” for the sake of both cooling and downforce, and has oil cooler for motor/tranny and rear diff + is high capacity dry sump.
My point is that no one is undertuning their forced induction V6 to be slower than an NA V8. Override the emissions controls and you get a nice 10-12% pop in power. It’s not going to be like the S4 where we went from 280whp to 370whp. The consumer expectation has changed.
How do you square that statement with the B8 S4 and the B8 RS4?
West, your analysis of the M3’s motor is one of the most comical things I’ve ever heard. PLEASE go post up that the “M3 is just a 335 pushed within an inch of it’s life” on any BMW board, I’d love to subscribe to it. FYI, there are several 335’s in testing with over 700whp with stock block still, yes new fuel, turbos, ic etc, but stock block. If the 335 can handle that in even a test environment searching for the failure point, I can’t wait to see the M3’s aftermarket potential.
[QUOTE=Terry@BMS;595984]Hey guys,
Was able to get Ando’s car back on the dyno to test out the new 1.00 AR exhaust housing. Mods are a JB4, VM top mount turbo kit, E40, meth, and all the bolt ons.
The result was an impressive ~30whp gain from his .84 AR housing with improved spool. Looks like the COMP 6465 1.00 twin scroll is good for a nice spooling 700whp. Even on automatics.
I also plotted it out against Payam’s manual trans 335i running basically the same turbo kit, tuning, and mods, and you can see what an improvement the longer MT gearing makes on spool and power under the curve – on the dyno. In the real world though advantage automatic. We’ll find out for sure when the two of them race at Shift Sector in a month. http://www.n54tech.com/forums/images/smilies/burnrubber.gif
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No one with a 2015+ car. You’re talking about 2010, which is the past. Now we’re onto turbo V8’s and turbo v6’s in the MB lineup. BMW selling value engineered crap for top dollar. Porsche getting ready to turbo their entire lineup. Audi will be last but it will be good.
I’ve done that at length on the F80 board. Place is run by dealers. I got banned for having an open (questioning) mind about German cars. Last time I lurked over there new owners were griping about reliability issues:
"Go to first new post YGBSM (You Gotta Be Shitting Me): Blown Wastegate "
“Check engine light.”
“Go to first new post Intake Pipe to turbo blew apart, leaving the car with no power. UPDATE: Now fixed”
“Rattle/crackling noise problem SOLVED!”
That 335i you posted is quite a science project. I’m interested in road course reliability though. Not rocket launches that you can’t repeat. The new C class is my favorite new compact sports sedan right now. It meets the bill.
335 road course reliability…there isn’t any XD
Not without serious work.
Head soak is a huge issue on that car. Even on a high speed circuit, a 335 with a tune managed to get into limp mode.
I know folks who track them, and they actually put back the factory tune to track to circumvent the limp mode issues.
Of course, it can all be remedied with parts, but there is still a limit to how far you can go with boost with a stock body style that wasn’t designed to deal with that kind of heat.