Caling out BWT - defend yourself!

B6/7 S4/RS4
#6

I did a double take when I first saw this thread and was thinking to myself, oh shit…

That was one hell of a deal. I was lucky enough to check the classifieds right after he posted it and called him right away to make sure I got it. I did swap him for my stock manifold so that’s like adding $250 to the price I guess. I’ve wanted to get the IM ever since it came out but couldn’t quite justify dropping $1300+ on it especially without having the right mods to support it. But when I saw that deal pop up I decided it was time.

I love the feel of the car now with the IM. Even without the tune, it’s very noticeable. The motor feels much more freed up especially paired with a full 2.5" exhaust.

I’m planning to grab the tune when JHM does their holiday sale in the next few weeks and that should bring the car together nicely. I got my exhaust lightly used as well for $1200, so after $500 for the IM and $500 for the tune, I should have about 60whp over stock for only $2200. Not bad…

#7

that’s an awesome modlist. Basically my old car + the intake manifold.

60 whp on an NA car…wow. When you think about it, that’s pretty incredible. I mean it may be only 50whp, but still crazy. It’s funny the Forced Induction world calls any new NA car a ‘fail’ because it’s not modifiable. Let’s really think about that.

stock B7 RS4 ran 13.1 @ 106 at a dragstrip day 3 weeks ago (my car)
full bolt on RS4 ran 12.2 @ 112 the same day

RS4 picked up 9 tenths, 6 mph for exhaust, tune, LWCP, clutch/flywheel. About $5500 in mods and if you factor in clutch is a maintenance item that needs replacing eventually, it’s more like 4200.

The same day, a B8 S4 ran 12.3 @ 111 with 93 stage II tune, high flow cats, catback exhaust, stage II pulley, LW wheels. Stock B8 S4 wasn’t with us that day, but on a much slower day in the summer, one that was with us ran 13.1 @ 106.

B8 S4 picked up 8 tenths, 5 mph. B8 modlist costs about $5500. You could argue the stock B8 would have been good for a 12.9 @ 107 on a cold day like when the modded B8 ran 12.39. If that’s the case the B8 picked up 6 tenths and 4 mphy. That’s just speculating, but still very compelling to think about.

I ask again…why do people say the NA cars aren’t modifiable? I mean the delta may favour the B8 when you throw race gas in (slightly favours it…don’t forget the NA car will pick up a little with race gas too). Still…I don’t get this whole attitude that’s out there. Even if we look at the fastest B8 S4 out there, Primetime, who ran 12.8 stock, and ran 11.9 modded with EVERY bolt on + race gas. He picked up 9 tenths…kinda like the RS4. Not sure what his MPH delta was but hopefully he’ll tell us. My old S4 with full exhaust, tune and LWCP/LWrotors ran 12.9 @ 107.8 the same day bangoman’s stock S4 ran 13.8 @ 102. My car picked up 9 tenths and 5 mph. Sound familiar? That was $3000 in mods. Take the JHM 12.70 @ 112 car with headers and manifold and the gap is even more impressive at 1.1 seconds and 10 mph. No B8 has picked up that delta, even WITH racegas vs pumpgas.

I get that it looks easier to pick up a quick boost with just a tune on a FI car…but this whole NA = fail really just shows the ignorance that’s prevelant in the world of forum’enthusiasts’.

#8

Thanks. I was basing the 60whp on that dyno chart where beemercer laid down 329whp and stock was about 250-260whp, if memory serves me correctly. And I believe the only difference between his old setup and my current one is that I don’t have the LWCP and I have high flow cats. So I’d expect to be right around 310 right now. Who knows though, I need to run my car to find out for sure.

I’m doing front brakes this upcoming weekend and I’ll be dropping on a set of LW front rotors as well.

Did your car have cats on it when you ran that 12.9? I’ll definitely be hitting the strip next spring.

I’ve never understood the hate on the 4.2NA. I think people just wrote it off when no good mods came along for the first 3-4 years. Then, luckily for us, JHM took over and proved everyone wrong.

#9

Saki, that’s probably one of the best paragraphs I’ve read regarding the whole “B6/7 V8’s are shit” perception.

It’s a shame we didn’t take more video of Audi on Audi crime because there is a bigger headline here as well - $3000 of mods got you about 4 bus lengths on me head to head. It was really cool to see the gap that he put on me because of his mods.

One day my clutch will be broken in and I look forward to seeing the change. Unfortunately that day is in 2012.

#10

Yeah stock was 264whp/247wtq, mine was 329whp/300wtq, so 65whp/53wtq for 93 tune, ported IM and TB, gasket matched intake ports, lwcp, 2.5" catless x pipe fullback, K&N, recent fuel/air/spark maintenance (not super recent though), and the air box flap mod. Stock wheels, breaks etc. Snub and rear diff fwtw.

If you go to ESP for a few dyno runs they have a pretty solid history of Audis that have run for some comparison. I may bring the A6 as a last hoorah if I can fix my trans mount bracket soon.

#11

Ok, so 45-50 is more realistic for my car right now. I do have decently lightweight wheels (20lbs) and LW rotors going on the front. I know that would help me in the quarter mile, but would that translate into anything on the dyno?

I’m down for a trip to ESP. The only weekend I’m not around is next weekend (Thanksgiving). Maybe I’ll take it in before getting tuned and then take it back again afterwards. I’d be interested to see the difference on a car that has an exhaust and a IM.

#12

^^^people say the lightweight rotating parts don’t help on the dyno, but I don’t get that. Seems like they must hep.
Maybe someone will explain it.

#13

Lightweight rotating parts definitely help…dyno or drag strip. You’re fooling yourself if you believe otherwise.

Same power, but better able to translate that power to the rolllers or road, whichever you’re on at the time.

#14

I think the issue is that its not representative of the butt dyno kick they give. It should in theory reduce drivetrain losses.

#15

^That makes sense, thanks guys.

Here a couple of cellphone pics of it installed. I personally prefer the red manifold to the blue one. There’s enough blue on my car already so its kinda nice to break it up with the red.

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/medium/2011-11-14_13-49-38_682_crop.jpg

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/medium/2011-11-14_13-49-33_814_crop.jpg

#16

You’re right - it contrasts nicely with the blue but with the red accents of the CPs and fuel rails. And it goes well with the of 5 Benny Franklins lol.

#17

you can argue with the engineers then lol. I said the same thing…they must help the car dyno higher. But…apparently it just doesn’t show up a commensurate WHP gain vs. the acceleration gains you actually get.

#18

  1. I was catless when I went 12.9 (full 2.5). THink about this though…I ran 12.9 @ 107.8 with a 1.82 60 foot time thanks to JHM launch assist. I was piggies with main cats + 2.5 fast intentions when I went 13.21 @ 107.39 with a 1.92 60 foot with no launch assist. MPH didn’t change much. Only 1/2 mph. Piggies flow well! There’s a full tenth off just the 60 foot…which should translate to maybe 15 hundredths on the 1/4 mile ET. That means in reality I could have gone about 13.05-13.10 with piggies if I was able to launch the car better. So the difference between 2.5 catless and piggies wasn’t really all that much.

  2. I think lots of people come from a background where they need cheap hp gains (i.e. boosted cars that can gain quick with a tune) because frankly buying a car that is out of the box powerful just isn’t on the financial agenda for most young folks (the majority of forum members are 21 and under…about 60%). So you get lots of people who were nurtured in the modding scene that boost is best. Getting 50 whp out of a B5 S4 was literally a $600 tune and free piggies away. Getting it out of a B6 S4 in 2006 was impossible. Getting it out of a B6 S4 today is possible, but it’s a three thousand dollars. So there’s always going to be that resistance to NA.

It’s funny though, in the domestic scene where massive power gains are achieved NA, nobody’s screaming ‘fail’ when the new Mustang comes out 5.0 all motor…and runs 11s with tires and bolt ons. The domestic scene gets it. Audi guys, for the most part, don’t. Audi people shouldn’t be turning a blind eye to the fact that 2 JHM RS4s ran 12.2 all motor with just bolt ons in the past 3 weeks. But they do in order to keep their ‘NA = FAIL’ argument valid.

When I was at the strip 2 weeks ago a couple of C6 vette guys and I were chatting and they thought the RS4 was pretty cool. One of them also remembered watching their friend lose to George’s red RS4. The funniest thing that was said? “I usually don’t care much for the Audis that come out…always little turbo motors. That red car was fun to watch. Nice to see those V8 Audis come out”. It was so opposite…like the Bizzarro version of Audi forum world lol.

#19

EVERYONE assumes that an S model Audi is forced induction. Every time people ask what I drive, I just say “Audi S4” and the response 99% of the time is “on yeah the twin turbo one”. Then I slap the bitch out of them.

I love domestics, and it seems a lot of us v8 s4 guys do. JHM, beem, jdubya, Jfunkey, etc. ALL domestic NA guys. Point is, if your not a domestic guy, you’re a tuner and you have a DSM background so you always go for the booster cars. Just kind of building on what Saki said.

Saki what were your previous cars? You have no “roots” lol

#20

joe…what about me. Mustang threw and threw.

I think the real issue here is that most of the N/A tunes suck and they suck bad. Its not unfair for the boosted guys to think that the n/a motors are a death sentence for the S line guys. All the other offerings are a joke JHM is the exception to the rule and most of the boosted guys want to ignore the rule.

#21

iirc he had an IS300 previous to the Audis.

There are also lots of VW, Honda and scoobiroo kids who move into B5s… but same deal where big power only comes from a big turbo.

#22

I’ve had similar experiences with domestic/diesel guys. They always got a kick out of my S4 having a V8 becuase its such a small unassuming car with a decent sized motor in it… that was the original muscle car ethos, small car big V8, so I think they can respect that. And they love the sound too, a nice change from the typical import racket of missfiring scoobi-roos, farting-droney VWs, tin can hondas, raspy bmws, garbage VQ35s and idontevenknowhowtodescribehowbadtheysound rotaries that are more common.

#23

I get that response a lot of the time too.

When I was a teenager I was all about Hot Rod mags and stuffing a 350 V8 into my S-10 truck. I loved American muscle. After college, I got into the import scene. A 1994 Eagle Talon, then a 2006 WRX, then a 2007 STI, now my my RS4. I wouldnt say I’m a domestic guy and I wouldnt say I’m a tuner either…I have background in both. I will say that I love the N/A V8 in my RS though!

#24

lol that’s a hilarious mouthful

#25

While Im still a young pup. I looked at it the same way. Then as I startaed going to the track I would see these tubed out 350 chevy cars getting the piss kicked out of them by the smaller better evolved GNX cars. then as time went on you started to see the Twin S cars getting there fast on… the Old qupe quattro cars the 5cylinder turbo cars just putting down some serious speed and then looking at the mighty domestic cars like geezzz that is out dated.,

The RS4 and the n/a 4.2 Audi motors show how to put brain power into horse power. Now with the 3.0 Im hoping we can get some of the domestic power put into the german engeenering. This looks to be part of the JHM MO so we iwll see how it comes along so far so good