Clutch/slave cylinder/other failure? need your expertise!!

B8 S4
#9

glad you took my advice and joined the forum!

Not sure if I just missed it but was there an option where:

Z) It’s the clutch, they will cover the cost under warranty, but you get them to put in the FX400 clutch in its place at no charge? Or will they only install factory parts under warranty?

Second question, do you plan on going stage 2 anytime soon? If so, where you going to go with the FX400 clutch in combination? I ask, as that $2,100 becomes negated as it was an expense you would have otherwise incurred at the point of stage 2.

#10

I get the impression he wants an OEMish car with some semblence of a warranty. Going stage 2 and aftermarket clutch are 2 things I would bet a Coke were not on his horizon.

Hopefully he finds an option that works here. Sucks.

I think I mentioned this on PM but Petrashevsky, if you are going to have Audi do the tear down to see what’s up, then if they say ‘your fault you need a new clutch’, find out if they will be OK with leaving the car tying up a rack while waiting for your aftermarket clutch parts to come in. I would have bet anything they wouldn’t be interested in doing that for more than a day. If they wouldn’t, youd be paying twice for lots of the labour (teardown, put backtogether, park it outside, wait for clutch, tear down again, install new clutch). They will be more than happy to wait if you’re buying an OEM clutch (as they have a 35% dealer markup on the part, and Audi makes a good nickel supplying the dealer as well) but if they aren’t making that extra $1000 or so, I don’t think they would.

Maybe jimmybones can chime in.

#11

I was planning to go stage 2 after my 40K km service, but still not 100% sure, still hesitant, will see how this clutch business ends for me as obviously encountering any problems, whether caused by tuning or not, makes me think twice.

I did see mdma’s (not sure which country he is from as the old USSR is now 15 countries but I’m pretty sure or first language is the same :))), tomtom’s and richi’s review of FX400, spoke to a bunch of people as well.
Its all up in the air and will depend on what the dealership tells me.

The latest on that is I told them to go ahead and diagnose the problem today, result should be known by the end of the day today.

bear, you’re right, I haven’t thought about me buying an aftermarket clutch and having them putting it in under warranty - this will only cost me the clutch without labour. Good thinking! will definitely explore this.
I will keep you guys posted when I hear from the dealer.

#12

yeah, I thought about that, sakimano, for sure.
if its not warrantied, and it takes me a few days to get a new clutch, I will get the car transported to Pfaff tuning or twins, ship the new clutch to them and have everything put back together at half the price.

Pfaff even told me they have a service where they take my car in an enclosed truck and bring it to the shop.
The fact that dealership wants 8 hours just to take the tranny apart pisses me off.

#13

ask them for a loaner. They must have something for you…especially when you just authorized them to do about $2000 in labour (teardown+buttonup)

#14

I got a PM from petrashevsky so here goes. First B8 clutches suck! It doesn’t matter if it is the S5, S4, A4, or A5.

I thought the pressure plates were weak and after replacing some along with talking with CountVohn it is obvious that they are the issue. It is my opinion that the pressure plate collapses or gets weak enough to the point that the clutch hydraulics can’t fully release the clutch disc. My friend tomtom had and has the same problem as petrashevsky. When I replaced his clutch it had gotten so bad that you had to turn the engine off to go into either first or reverse and once you let off the brake (with the clutch pedal depressed) it would start to move with some speed. You had to slip it to get into second too. I didn’t feel like driving into the higher gears since it was so bad at that point. Now after driving 11k miles on the 6 puck clutchmasters kit my friend tomtom needs a new clutch again since he gets slippage. Tom and I have figured out that the current B8 S4 aftermarket clutches out there really don’t address the pressure plate issue. Most just use the factory pressure plate and then try to tweak it with different springs but that doesn’t work. The American car guys have figured this out a while ago.

There is good news though. Recently I helped out a guy on Audizine with replacing his B8 S4 clutch and he told me that the flywheels are the same part number for the S5s and S4s. I didn’t replace the flywheel on tomtom’s car when I replaced his clutch. The guy figured this out when he ordered a new flywheel for his S4 and got a flywheel for the 2.0T/3.2 that was too small. Apparently there is an error in the ETKA system that states that the S4s get a revised part number flywheel which is for the smaller engines. He checked the part number on the flywheel that was in his car and it was the same as the S5s. This means that the JHM S5 flywheel and clutch kit should bolt right up to a B8 S4. That choice should work out the best since the JHM flywheels and clutches work wonders for the B6/B7 S4s.

Now I think JHM is playing it safe with the B8 S4s. I say this because over the past few months I have been looking at clutches and flywheels for tomtom and heard different things from the guys at JHM. First I talked to Jake who said they had a light-weight flywheel for $1,200 + a $800 core charge and a stage four clutch kit for $1,350. Then Dru told me that they didn’t have anything for the B8 S4 and I later asked about a clutch alignment tool and Dru never got back to me. Then I talked to CountVohn and he offered to help but it didn’t go through with tomtom.

As far as Audi warranty covering the clutch: I highly doubt it. Clutches are wear and tear items and at this point unless petrashevsky has them put in an aftermarket clutch or shitty stock clutch then he will be out a grand or so. I think the best option at this point would be to get a JHM S5/S4 light-weight flywheel and stage four clutch if they are willing to do it. Also since petrashevsky did authorize teardown then the dealership should provide an Audi loaner.

Man you guys type fast because I keep getting interrupted from posting with having to read new replies.

new clutch setup that looks promising
#15

what dealer did you buy from?
what dealer did you take the car to?

also +karma for jimmybones

#16

superb info there, Jimmybones, thank you for taking the time!

lots of the specifics is way over my head because before I did my research yesterday, I wouldn’t be able to tell a clutch from a flywheel having both in front of me…
So I have to ask regarding your comment about aftermarket not addressing pressure plate situation:

Does tomtom need a new clutch after 11k with FX400 because based on his experience, no matter which clutch you go with, it just doesn’t work with factory pressure plate? or even Clutchmaster’s pressure plate which is the same as factory?

If that combination is so bad, then why aren’t more people reporting clutch failures? I’m sure enough of us with 6MT are spirited drivers.

Regarding JHM - does their setup for S5 and B6/B7 S4s use their own pressure plate which works well with their clutches?

#17

Man if the JHM clutch solution fits the B8 S4, that is awesome. Such a great clutch kit.

#18

Not a problem. It just took a little while to get all the info in there.

Yes tomtom needs a new clutch after 11k miles. We used the clutchmasters pressure plate that came with the kit and it is a non-SAC style pressure plate. Supposedly the clutchmasters kit can handle the amount of power that tomtom’s car is putting out but it is obvious to me now that it can’t. tomtom got a DXD clutch kit that we will try out when he has saved up enough for a new flywheel since they raised the price up to $1,500 for a new factory flywheel recently.

The factory pressure plate uses a SAC system that works great but the clamp load is not enough to hold with the higher amount of power that these cars can make.

JHM uses a B7 RS4 pressure plate on the B6/B7 S4s and now B5 S4s. I asked CountVohn about the B8 clutches and pressure plates but he couldn’t give up too much information. He did say that the pressure plate is very similar to the B7 RS4 pressure plate that they use on the older cars.

#19

Heard back from the dealership!
It’s the clutch that’s worn out “almost to the rivets”. They say I also need a new flywheel. I showed pictures to someone who can tell a difference and they confirmed that clutch wear has caused this.
Is the wear normal? I don’t know but Audi wouldn’t cover it. I don’t have enough arguments to fight that statement.
You can see the pictures they’ve sent me here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/kkolomiyets/B8S4Clutch?authkey=Gv1sRgCPXXwYzSyOeF6AE
If anyone can confirm or refute their statements, please share.
At this point I’m exploring my options, should be able to make up my mind tomorrow.

#20

The only experience I had with getting warranty work done on a wear and tear item was with my old Mazda. It chewed through a brand new set of rotors in under 11,000km and there was actually a guarantee at the service depot that the brakes would last 15,000km or more anything less was premature wear. Now all they did was machine the rotors but at least I didn’t need to pay for the service.

This is a tough one… you could always get AofC involved… not sure they would be much help though…

#21

My clutch looked exactly the same … but at 135000 km. Amazing that could happen on such a young car.

#22

Just got home and saw the posts.

Here are the pics…

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/08/8eduzu6e.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/08/aguzytes.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/08/gemyjegy.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/08/9yderugy.jpg

#23

Just came back from the dealer. They did speak to AoC. Coverage denied as no defective parts or anything breaking down were found. Just wear, so I’m out of luck on this one.
Going back to my list of options…
Decisions, decisions!

#24

So let’s run down your options (excluding labour…just parts)

  1. OEM parts - approximately $2300 + tax quoted…reality though we could find you $400-500 off that
    PRO - OEM feel which is nice
    CON - if there is a weakness in the setup, it will just happen again in all likelihood

  2. clutchmasters clutch - approximately $900 for clutch…and you’d still need an OEM flywheel which is around $1200?
    PRO - marginally cheaper and supposedly stronger clamping load for the bigger power you plan for the car
    CON - retains OEM parts that potentially caused the failure in the first place

  3. JHM beta clutch/flywheel - not sure on cost
    PRO - awesome results with their B5/6/7 S4/RS4 stuff; LW flywheel shaves about 12-13 lbs of rotating mass, at the flywheel (literally lol)
    CON - you’d be a guinea pig of sorts as we know very little about this setup…and the labour charges of dealing with something potentially going wrong are pretty penal

Did I miss anything else? Can you fill in the blanks?

#25

If you don’t want to spend to much money and the rivets in the clutch disc didn’t cut up the flywheel, or the pressure plate;
You can get your factory flywheel and pressure plate slightly resurface, which probably isn’t nessasary because they were utilizing factory disc. Then take your factory clutch disc to a shop to get resurfaced with a metallic 6 picked surface. This procedure will more than likely improve your clutch setup 20% over what was originally instaled. I’m almost certain that this will hold up just as well as a clutch masters stage 1, 2, 3 and for setup, they will disagree because they are only concerned with taking hour money.

I’m trying to contribute as much as I can, but can only do so if a topic interest me.

#26

I am not considering option 2 due to a limited sample size of users, the fact they don’t supply a flywheel and also the story that Jimmybones told us yesterday.

Option 1 is nice and easy. I will be able to pick up the car tomorrow evening, but the CON you’ve described is what scares me. Lots of people report slipping with more power in the car, but even with stock cars.

JHM is tempting because of their past results, better performance and more safety with future mods (if everything goes well), but obviously scary to be the first (or second) one and the cost will be more than OEM + I won’t have my car until the next Friday at the earliest.
Installation cost putting everything back together - this will be fixed with the dealership at a flat rate, but yes, labour in case something goes wrong down the road is scary as JHM will cover the parts, but won’t cover the labour.

What I don’t understand is: is my car and my driving the exception to have the clutch fail so early or not enough people are reporting the problem? Never had any problems with clutches with my two previous 6MT cars. Yes, Audi is the most powerful I’ve had, but my driving style didn’t change…

#27

After talking to a few more people I came up with Option 4 which I am going to go with:

Clutchmasters FX300 clutch + OEM flywheel.
110% more holding capacity (advertised) + more civil for daily driving than FX400 for about the price of OEM setup.
Hopefully the best of both worlds cuz it will cost me just over $4,000.
Parts are being shipped to me, car should be ready late Tuesday.
I will report back after I get it back.

Thanks for everyone’s support and advice!

#28

Glad to hear you made a decision. All the best with it.