Good stuff Eric.
…and the last thing that get raced here are dyno sheets.
I love racing dynosheets. I’m famous for only accepting dynosheets as proof of a concept actually. MaverickRT is always bang on the money.
On the topic of the dyno numbers that’s a lot of torque. I dont remember seeing that on the teaser dyno that was shown. Must have misread it.
So Rt is saying the Apr car has a 100 wtq peak advantage over everyone and therefore likely a huge area under the curve advantage.
He’s also saying they make more peak whp than everyone even when they’re heatsoaked.
He’s also saying when not heat soaked they have EVEN MORE of an advantage (and seeing icebags on the car at a negative DA day at an empty, private track rental means no heatsoak)
So why is APR the slowest trapping car of those who ran like for like (the pump gas runs) ? By about 2-4 mph actually… which can be about 20-40 WHP.
I guess the answer is the APR dyno . It’s a hub dyno, in a controlled room with excellent ventilation and often reports numbers that are 5-10% higher than average mustang and dynojet dynos . Both stock and modified… Not saying they rigged it for their ‘after’ pulls. It’s just a ‘happy’ dyno. I believe they dyno’d the b8 s4 at 320-330 whp stock, whereas we have seen numbers from 275-300 from most other sources. Again, the high stock number only hurts apr’s ability to show delta so they aren’t rigging it.
So we should definitely not race dyno sheets.
Hey Ernie, I noticed the APR car was pushing out quite a bit of smoke for a car with cats and stock cat back. Was it previously APR tvsr1320 supercharged? Or just the current kit? For how many miles has it been supercharged? I’ve noticed lots of these cars smoke with boost (and without sometimes) . Is the car burning any oil?
Thanks.
I also find it comical that many people on AZ love the dyno numbers more than the drag strip runs…
Dyno sheets are nothing than a marketing ploy, most of us here get that. Yes they are a tool for a calibrator, but the last thing a pretty dyno does is make a car fast.
[QUOTE=KMoore;9235863]Awesome!! As an FYI, the APR Facebook site indicated a dyno run of 580 AWHP !!!
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[QUOTE=badbluers4;9230806]YESSS!!! 585 AWHP and 525 AWTQ!!! Can’t WAIT!!! APR shut it DOWN!!!
[/quote]
[QUOTE=Arin@APR;9230920]If I’m not mistaken, his car has seen over 600 awhp with correction turned off, so I’m sure he’ll love the cooler northern weather. 
[/quote]
…and let’s just stop with the corrected/un-corrected bullshit
It creates buzz. Which is a good thing. AR is very much data driven. More so than the ‘other’ sites.
Agreed, but some guys focus on it a lite too much.
…and someone above should know better than to skool us on not “racing dyno sheets”
I don’t think that’s a good idea, nor is it BS when speaking about our supercharger system.
Typically in the winter the air density will increase. With increased density, the charger is capable of producing higher boost pressure levels compared to the summer, and as such will make more power. We can easily illustrate this point by turning correction off and comparing dynos in the summer and the winter. Likewise, step on over to the B8 S4 3.0T world and compare boost pressure collected in the summer vs winter on a vehicle with no bypass valve intervention.
We use SAEJ1349 correction to lower our power figures normalize them as best as possible. My comments about 600 HP in the winter up north are not BS. Simply put, the customer’s car will make more HP in the colder, northern weather, compared to the warmer south. As such, he should be quite happy on his drive home as once he goes 1000 miles north; he’ll enjoy a nice bump in power from the ambient conditions alone.
[quote=“sakimano,post:23,topic:4944”]
This platform uses an early generation, single hole, Hitachi GDI injector which is known to produce a lot of smoke. This is even on completely stock vehicles like the Audi R8 V8.
What kind of boost do you think he will be seeing, if measured as you measured the other car? 16-17 psi?
I really do hope you’re running FlyingTomatoes’ car and it makes 16-17 psi
I’ve found dyno data is just as important as drag strip and other acceleration data.
Drag strip and pbox data shows how the vehicle preforms at wide-open throttle within the tiny rev range generated between each shift. It may also show power delivery during shifting events and so forth. Unfortunately it doesn’t paint a full picture.
The dyno on the other hand is an excellent tool for showing power delivery across the entire power band. For example, how will the car react when I punch the throttle at 3000 RPM? Something you may never see on the drag strip. The dyno can help illustrate the available torque and power at that point and going forward.
This is why it’s important to look at the big picture, not just acceleration and not just peak power figures. Case in point, have you ever seen a 1000 HP Honda run down the track? It may produce awesome results and great peak HP figures, but without looking at a dyno sheet, it may be difficult to put that into perspective. However, if you look at the dyno, you may find the car is an absolute dog till it finally spools close to redline.
My point is more data is important. One piece alone will only get you so far.
Boost builds and tapers towards redline. I don’t believe he’ll see 17 PSI of manifold pressure.
Maybe you missed his point. They’re jerking off over the dyno data, and in fact are only reference peak WHP/WTQ numbers (which is what YOU mentioned in the threads). You showed nothing to do with the power curve, the performance at part throttle, the performance from low RPMs. You told them a peak number on a tune nobody will run.
You really think you’re putting 104 in your car and saying ‘lets see how it reacts when I punch it in the wrong gear at 3000 RPMs or at partial throttle’. No. People put 104 in the car when they’re racing. At WOT. In the right gear. So that’s again, irrelevant. If you want to talk about daily driving on the pump gas tune etc, great. Show the data and talk about it.
None of what you said relates to euroswagr’s point, however.
So the APR kit is likely more of a 16 psi kit in cooler climates. Interesting.
What kind of testing did you guys do on cars making 16 psi in colder climates? Or is Flying Tomatoes about to do it for you?
Sure they are. Why wouldn’t they? Remember me saying a boost figure was pointless on its own yet you and others wanted a number without the whole picture? Likewise people ‘jerk off’ over really good quarter mile times with no other information. Single data points alone can be impressive and can excite people. Sometimes they can have meaning on their own. Having the full picture ultimately would be more valuable, but it doesn’t necessarily mean the other data points alone are completely pointless.
Arin, your basically saying…when it’s colder out… Air is more dense…and you car makes more power…thanks.
Intelligent people don’t need a correction, they understand that things can be different in different conditions. If a customer lives at 5000ft elevation can you also give a dyno sheet for that?
Just admit dyno numbers are primarily something that helps sell kits because simple minded folk love to look at them and also boast about how much powahh their car makes. I don’t think it’s BS that you provide the dyno numbers, especially because you guys also put the car on the track (which is awesome), I think all of the correction factors are BS along with the multiple dyno variations that could truly give people a whole slew of power figures.
Can you guys also stop talking about fucking Hondas…I could buil one that runs 10s with the change in my piggy bank, but then I’d be like every other 16yr old.
I never said the kit makes 16 PSI in colder climates and as we’ve explained before, pressure logged from the manifold doesn’t directly translate to cylinder pressure.
We don’t only have these kits running in Alabama. Some of our close importers and dealers are in the opposite hemisphere, so they are able to collect data summer data while we’re in the winter, and winter data while we’re in the summer. It’s very beneficial.
You kinda did, you mentioned to view the b8S4 boost logs also… Unless you guys are using some type of bypass intervention on the RS4 kit as a safety.
1/4 mile.
NOTHING. ELSE. MATTERS.
Correction is still important for intelligent people. This is especially during calibration. It’s not possible to always calibrate in identical conditions. Having correction is necessary in many situations when comparing results.
I cannot. Likewise I cannot give someone a quarter mile time slip at 5000 FT. When it comes time to sell the product (Not yet), within reason, I like to give our customers as much data as I can. Sometimes that’s easy, sometimes it’s difficult. However, I do my best to make sure I’m as honest as possible.
I don’t agree with you here. Correction is important, otherwise I’d either have the option of giving data based on summer or winter results, one being high, and one being low. Likewise, the same for the stock data. Would it be fair to dyno the car, stock, in the blazing hot summer and modified in the winter and apply no correction at all? The results would be much more exaggerated. I don’t feel that’s necessarily worth while.
B8 S4 logs show between 2-2.5PSI gain in cold conditions, so it’s a possibility the 1740 kit in cold conditions cold do the same (16-16.5PSI)
Isn’t your dyno climate controlled?
You could just give the conditions and people can make their own assumptions or logical figures from there.