Interesting new intake from USP...

B8 S4
#9

I believe he either tried/considered it and was not happy with the piping which had rough rivets inside. There may have been other reasons as well.

I know the Tsivas logs showed that the Roc-Euro intake appeared to be beneficial in 60-130. However, that’s at speed with air flowing from the fog area as well as the secondary intake tract. I’d be interested to find out if torque is being lost in the lower rev range.

Also, side note, did you hear anything about GRD Cloch? Let me know if you did and when you’re going. Maybe we could meet up and get our stuff flashed at the same time. Would love to see/hear your car in person.

#10

^^ arin never got back to us on the thread, and I have not contacted GRD this week. I’ll make a note to do so on Saturday. If they finally have flashing tools, I’d be down to meet u there. I’ve been wanting this upgrade for a while now.

#11

Skid, would be good to see, I have a strat, never installed. The interesting log is what circuittested did, see the IATs and MAF and intake manifold pressure, and see if it makes a difference. It does take at least until 60-100 feet or more until the motor sees cool air with an open element like the Strat/ROC or USP. Soooo weather dependent though.

I’d imagine going with the biggest possible pipe diameter (and obviously a clean free-flowing filter) would pretty much yield similar results. It’s likely every intake has reached the point of diminishing returns, but who knows?

What really gets me thinking is the throttle body. Someone here was already trying for that, in the form of a bigger thottle body, and they can comment if they like :slight_smile: …but it apparently was a non-fit, which is too bad.

The TB is pretty much a massive restriction considering throttle is controlled mostly with the bypass valve when you’re “on it”. And it doesn’t open all the way, basically only 86% (equivalent to the shadow of the stem), which some might say is good enough. But I’d still think it would make a difference, considering every other car imaginable has shown differences with a larger or ported TB.

#12

They do indeed have them. Went there a few weeks back and they had never used the tool before so I decided not to let them “test it” with my car.

Last time I called, they had sent their tool/computer to APR for diagnostics.

I actually already have v2.0 but something didn’t copy over right when I updated so Arin suggested I re-flash for moar powah

#13

Okay gotcha. I just checked their website - no Saturday hours. Wtf?? But anyway, ya, I’ll meet you up there to get the flash. Looks like I’ll have to give them a ring during the week. I want that power!

#14

Clochner, Had the APR one but never installed it… didn’t like it and IMO the open elements have proven better from data logging and drag racing standpoint…

Skid, Heck yeah do some logs… That will be fun to see…

J, I think the bigger piping will be able to feed the blower better as their will be more capacity… How much will it help, not sure… The dynos look nice :slight_smile: I am convinced the open elements are better than the boxes… funny thing is my car actually dynoed better with the stock box over the strat… lol At the strip the open element was .1-.15 faster in very similar conditions… Along with the other numbers you mentioned…

I tried with the TB it wasn’t a fitament issue or that is not what I was told it was a electronics issue or that is what I was told… I paid for it and waited and waited and waited and finally just got my money back… He has yet to produce one that I am aware of as I told him I would buy one if he got the electorincs to work… The restricition is more so on the intake vs the TB, I think I had posted some pics on that? If not there below…

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af247/concordslim/DSC_1624_zps12190072.jpg

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af247/concordslim/DSC_1623_zps9449422d.jpg

#15

We did take my TB apart…

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af247/concordslim/IMG00253-20111229-0745.jpg

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af247/concordslim/IMG00252-20111229-0745.jpg

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af247/concordslim/IMG00251-20111229-0744.jpg

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af247/concordslim/IMG00245-20111228-0924.jpg

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af247/concordslim/IMG00244-20111228-0923.jpg

#16

Awesome pics, thanks prime.

The reason I’m saying TB is…in our case the TB is atmospheric.

In a turbo setup, or a centrifugal blower like on your stang, the TB is after the power adder, part of the pressurized circuit. So if you gain power by increasing mani pressure, the TB will not impose much more of a pressure drop as manifold pressure rises.

In our case, though, the TB is prior to the power adder - like a NA motor. So as we grow in power, and thus flow, the TB will pose more and more of a restriction, exponentially, since it still runs at atmospheric pressure but with added flow. At 1.4x the flow, the pressure drop across the TB will be roughly double.

It looks like 75-80mm, just a guess based on the thumb (unless you or your bro are giants). Well on a B7 RS4, it’s 90mm…the RS5 uses twin 70mm…I think we are lacking here. What will be interesting is if stage III uses the same TB. But the hole there looks bigger…I dunno though.

http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8201/8285058969_0d5048caf8_b.jpg

#17

J, so do you think the TB is a restriction at the current levels? FYI… stock is a Siemens VDO 70mm, the one I bought was a 78mm from a skoda car supposeldy… they were working on a pigtail to make the electronics work… There wasn’t much you could do with the stocker from a p&p standpoint and we didn’t want to tear out the blade since it was pressed in and we weren’t sure how it would work out… Thought I was getting a bigger one also at that time…

#18

Ha, caught me mid-post. Well, for comparison…

Seems the CTS-V has an 87mm, some are swapping to the LS2 90mm TB. That’s a decent comparison considering we might be using the same blower screws.

Even an increase in throttle response would be nice, if no power was gained.

Porting doesn’t seem an option either…:frowning:

But if electronics seem to be the issue, it would pretty much take a cross-referencing microfiche miracle that another car had compatible electronics. Seems Audi is going twin TBs on on the new cars now, so nothing there…and the B7 RS4 uses a bosch unit, I believe.

I doubt Arin would want to give anything away, but I’d be MIGHTILY surprised if they were going to stick with a 70mm TB on stage III.

#19

Jay, Yeah no doubt on the V’s as I have seen some of the offerings which is why I thought it may work for us… I had a Acufab Big Mouth TB on my mustang when I switched from the twin blade style that came on 03+ Cobras… It worked well and to your point throttle response was much sharper but it wasn’t a drive by wire system either… Anyway, I had talked to Arin and Joel back when I wanted to do this and they didn’t think it would yeild anything huge if I could pull it off but they didn’t say it wouldn’t help… Would have to look at the old emails to get more specific… I would agree if they use a bigger blower they will probably use a bigger TB… Our current blower is really a mess from a flow standpoint once you look inside as I try to show with the above pics…

#20

I asked a few questions of this intake. Basically what was the methodology.

They basically ran the three in order, with a 5-10 minute heat soak cool down. They didn’t reset the adaption on the ECU between the two intakes, nor did they run the competitors again after their product to see if the power gains were just because the O2 sensors were getting hotter and allowing for more power.

In theory I could get the dyno to show the same results with the roc-euro intake if I substituted if for the last pull of the day. I just don’t believe the gains they market when it essentially is the same intake design.

#21

All of the PD cars that I have had experience with(03 Cobra and 01 Cobra with KB blower) get much better gains from intake mods than from exhaust because the blower needs to be fed and exhaust usually doesn’t become an issue until higher power levels, IE bigger blower… Larger diameter intakes stuffed into the fender and large mouth TB’s showed nice gains… With these blowers they are such a mess around the TB area with the bypass valve/intake casting and such I am not positive it will matter? I think the USP intake may potentially allow more air for the blower to consume since it is larger in diameter… I was planning on buying one just to test but I am fairly certain stage III will require a different intake… I’ll take vagcom readings and 1/4 times on the same day or 60-130 #'s over the vendor’s dyno but that’s just me… Not taking a shot at you well_armed just letting you know that dyno #'s can and are misleading which I think you know already…

#22

[quote=“primetime,post:21,topic:4104”]
Exactly. These dyno numbers are just plain snake oil.

I bet they just chose whatever smoothing and correction factor that gave them the most gains.

I asked for uncorrected numbers in an email and they didnt reply. meh

B8 S4 headers bank or bust?
#23

See that is how some of us feel about EC and their header dyno’s… Made to look good but real world results haven’t shown that, granted the real world tests have been limited… Look forward to seeing what your car does at the strip… I am very dissappointed in the 13+ DSG’s from a performance standpoint… Gearing is worse(for drag racing) and they seem to short shift way more than the 10-12’s…

B8 S4 headers bank or bust?
#24

really? has anyone gone in a facelifted car yet?

#25

Moved my reply over to the header post…

#26

Do the B8.5 S4s have lazier shifts as well? I was watching a launch control vid of one of the '13s and the DSG seemed to shift a bit slower.

#27

The intake hose and filter look top notch, the heat shield on the other hand is quite flimsy. Overall i’m satisfied with it, but coming from the stock air box I have nothing to compare to. I’ll put it through some tests soon.

#28

could be a safety thing (for the gearbox). Maybe they’ll flash a new transmission control file on the 2010-2012 guys. Imagine the anger and outrage lol.