GIAC Extreme E85 file
PJ K04’s
Stock internals
8.85
http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy338/temanuele91/B5S4VboxRun2.jpg
Not terrible
4.7s 100-200Kmh World Record Street Legal Audi S4. Full weight, 92oct + Meth. Stock Tranny.
http://www.fastaudi.com/3L770.bmp
5.7s 60-130MPH World Record 92oct + Meth Audi S4. Full Weight, Stock Tranny.
Anyone ha e any comments on the recent discovery that pbox elevation data is spotty at best? I.E. A run can have the slope off by 3% for no apparent reason on one run vs the next?
We have seen this lately with various pboxd dragstrip passes and compared the data to other elevation measurements for the same strip.
Basically what om saying is relying on a pbox as a benchmark is kind of useless and the data they produce is fraught with integrity issues. A 30+ foot drop can be shown as flat. A flat road can show a 20 foot drop. A 60 foot can show as a 30 foot drop.
Basically it’s a crock. Just find a nice super downhill road, then run your car there a bunch of times till one of the files shows that it qualifies. Bit of a joke.
This is the 60-130 thread, why do you need to come in here and post up this BS which you already posted in other threads? No one is going to believe that PBOX GPS data is wrong, and no one cares that there is a 30 foot drop over a standing mile. But if you want to debate it, start your own thread.
Pretty bad for someone with moderation ability to shit on everyone’s thread. But then constantly warn others they are posting OT in other threads.
In addition FI cars usually are faster in slight inclines due to higher load, which equals more boost.
I believe the data can be wrong and I believe many times it is wrong. I care that the elevation changes…
Yes the PBOX data IS wrong, and I will show you how much people care about that when I post this same information in the 6speedonline thread
The 30 foot drop shown on the McLaren’s quarter mile run is not over ‘a standing mile’. Think about it. Key word is ‘quarter’. So it’s a 2.5% elevation discrepancy that disagrees with what a number of other elevation measurements of that same stretch of land show. The pbox is the odd man out.
[quote]Pretty bad for someone with moderation ability to shit on everyone’s thread. But then constantly warn others they are posting OT in other threads.
[/quote]
How the fuck is this OFF TOPIC? This is entirely ON topic. This is the pbox 60-130 thread lol.
[quote]In addition FI cars usually are faster in slight inclines due to higher load, which equals more boost.
[/quote]
Even if that were true…that a FI car (lol) could miraculously overcome elevation changes or that it does not beinefficientit from gravity (physics be damned) how is that relevant?
The point is simple - you claim the pbox GPS is perfect and the integrity of these 60-130 circle jerk sessions is just dandy, but we have just seen evidence that the pbox elevation change measurement can be WILDLY inaccurate. Someone claiming they ran at 2.9% downhill slope could in fact be running at 5 or 6% downhill slope. That’s a staggering difference on performance, despite your silly ‘uphilll helps’ claims.
This is not a PBOX thread, this is a 60-130 thread. PBOX acceptable variance is 3%.
Nope this has nothing to do with PBOX level of variance, your data could be flawed just as much as your assumption.
Instead this is a way for you to attack the universally accepted medium many people rely on to prove times.
This is the reason why PBOX logs have to go through a 3 person validity check, and there are tools that help this out. I am sure over the years at 6speedonline they have figured all this out.
I never claimed PBOX data is perfect. It is what we have to use, a GPS verified way of measuring distance/time/acceleration. This can be wrong, and no one cares, because you can average 3 PBOX runs and them have a outcome with certainty.
This is a pbox 60-130 thread. You’re not using vagcom or speedo videos. You’re using pbox, correct?
The 6speedonline thread says that you can run on a slope of UP TO -3%. This is because in theory it’s hard to find a perfectly flat road, and they want to give everyone a fair shake and a range to their advantage.
So -3% is acceptable. For slow cars like my RS4, that means a drop of up to 60 feet over the approximatley 2000 feet it takes to go 60-130. On a fast car like yours that means a drop of about 18 feet over the approximately 600 feet it takes you to go 60-130.
We have just seen that the pbox readings can be off by 3%. Therefore what you think is -3% could actually be flat. Or could be -6%. So I could in theory run on -60 foot decline…or a nearly -120 foot decline…and the pbox may not know what it is and report the same thing. That’s the problem. The difference in my time from flat to -3% is huge. The difference of -3% to -6% is also huge.
The data is garbage.
The data is garbage, why don’t you take that up with the people who made the PBOX, I care less about you finding one possible example of where there was an error. I have seen 1/4 mile times thrown into question too, all computers crash, etc ,etc.
Your just full of shit IAN this thread proves it, and oh thanks for the constant negative karma each day, keep it coming! A single poophead individual is not going to make 5 years of PBOX data irrelevant over night.
And until someone beats my times, they will stand the test of time. World Record baby!
I guess you’re in denial. That’s understandable.
I have dragstrip passes with my pbox on that show the same discrepancy. Showed a -8 foot drop on one pass. Then showed a 5 foot INCREASE in elevation on the next pass.
Same thing on other data we have from Thompson raceway in Ohio. The track is dead flat on all elevation measurement devices, however on a couple of dragstrip passes, it showed the car changed height by 17 feet.
Anyone with a brain who sees this data will realise that the pbox system of ‘proof’ is highly flawed.
Try this killer. Go take your car and run 60-130 on a flat road. A literally dead flat road. Then do it with a 20 foot downhill slope. Then do it with a 40 foot downshill slope.
The difference is MASSIVE. It also shows that these 60-130 lists are fun, but basically not trustworthy and useless for trumpeting how great a particular part/car/tuner/driver etc. is.
Killer your like a big fucking baby, you of all people should care about this! What if some guy beats your time running at a -6% grade but his PBOX shows -3%…that’s what the fucking point is.
…and you boosted cars benefit by going uphill instead of downhill could be voted the most retarded statement on AR
If there is a slight decline, or a slight incline, in logs my car has been faster on the incline, I get faster FATS, etc.
Why don’t you do a test that shows the speed difference with your 20-30 foot drop over a long distance, and see how it throws the numbers off, its basically negligible.
Contrary to what Saki is trying to say, with his flawed math and zero actual proof, my PBOX has been 100% extremely accurate, I have literally 20 + logs that show perfect grade for the road and what it actually is. Never has it been inaccurate.
No one believes what you 3 musketeers are pushing.
Now all you did is shit on a perfectly good thread that had no bickering in it.
If someone beats my time I will congratulate them. It’s that simple, as long as the log is verified to be within the -3% rule. Most honorable people who upload logs try to keep it less then 1% as I do.
No one has brought your time into question…it’s whatever man, I don’t give a fuck about 60-130 times or your sweet record so have fun talking about it for the next millennium.
The guys on 6speed are talking about my post. Looks like the shoddy elevation is something that a few guys are now noticing after checking their repeated runs over the same stretch of road or track.
posted this elsewhere, it seems the conversation has migrated:
If I were you, I wouldn’t mention the word ‘pump gas’ in the title of your record for the 92oct with methanol injection time. It only serves to undermine the credibility of what is actually a truly killer (no pun intended) run. The ones who emphasize ‘pump gas’ when they’re running meth injection come off as trying to play something up.
I will remove the pump gas terminology. I try to draw a clear line that I did not run C16, which is 60WHP/WTQ difference, plus better spool. For the race gas run, Deep has the best time in an S4 with 5.4seconds.
Yeah I saw the responses to your thread. The elevation is really to keep people honest about their runs. So if its not working right, should be looked at or fixed, maybe there is a firmware update or something for the PBOX units.
You could kind of solve this by requiring 3 runs, to average a score. However that is somewhat problematic in some cases.
^^^problem killer is that people are using the PBOX to sell products. In the absence of trusting a dyno result…and with everyone’s latest thing to be to act like the quarter mile is impossible, people have turned to the PBOX as an easy way to say ‘hey my stuff works!’
Unfortunately we’re now seeing that it may not be a very reliable method. So now what?
I have a pbox. I have had it for years. It’s fun. I’m a numbers geek and ever since I was 8 I have raced through Road and Track and C&D and Automobile and Motor Trend every month to see the road test data, whether it was a 911 turbo in 1987, or a dodge neon in 1993. I just like the numbers. So I have a mental rolodex of just about every road test ever. Having the ability to compare my car to cars I’ve seen is fantastic. But it’s just for fun.