^ I concur, This thread is probably the best thread with information regarding SC’ing an RS4 period.
I also noticed the massive bump in views! This is good stuff, AR ftw
Holy thread revival, but has anybody determined just how much the Stock RS4 engine can handle before it is compromised. JHM’s Stage II runs high 10’s, but how long ago was this (is it still pulling strong) and was it stock block? Would like to hopefully continue to build upon with the stock internals, but don’t want to have to worry about grinding the engine.
whos running 10s stage 2? i didn’t think anyone broke in there yet.
welcome to the RS4…
(2013)
http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b601/rs4elitist/JHM107_zps191af61c.png
and if it still counts, APR went 10s on slicks, race gas, stripped interior, pulled exahust and probably 25psi…lol
You can’t even buy that supercharger right now.
they ran 10s in 2013
we have a thread about engine strength. From three years ago.
I read that one but, as you said, it was from three years ago. I didn’t know if anyone had some epiphanies occur 
IIRC, that thread used a lot of HP numbers, but those are going to vary from dyno to dyno and all sorts of other variables. I guess I basically want to know if the Stage II JHM kit is the highest one can go on stock internals, or is it potentially capable of safely handling more? I guess I would directly need to PM CV for his thoughts on that. Anyway, thanks!!!
Why don’t you just let JHM tell you what they found? Clearly they will not push the stock motor to its limit. So if they’re comfortable putting out a kit that makes 500 whp at 8 or 9 PSI (can’t remember) well that’s what I would consider safe.
Of all the companies we have discussed here, only 1 actually owns an RS4 (JHM), and only 1 has done 2-3 years of boosted RS4 R&D (JHM). Only one has a supercharger that can make 700+ whp, thus must be reigned in, (and will actually care about motor limits)
So if you think the engine is comfotable with 16 psi and 600 whp as the APR cars seem to be advertising…that’s fine. It should be mentioned that of the 3 APR cars we know of, MEEM - motor blew in a month
GRD (APR dealer) - motor blew a few months back
FlyingTomatoes - keeps having his car taken appart…belching loads of smoke, and then getting shipped to shops hundreds of miles away for ‘bad spark plug’ bullshit excuses…and apparently he has bought 2 used RS4 engines in the past couple of months (take from that what you will)
Sounds like 0 for 3 for the APR kit. Now that it has been pulled from their website, I guess that’s one option that needn’t be discussed anymore.
SO all around, it appears that running 16+ PSI and whatever power you want to make up isn’t working.
The AmvivGMG cars are so variable.
Woodi - customer who lent them his car that went 11.36 @ 126 when they tested it after 2 weeks of tuning (lol) - have we heard ANYTHING from him since? Nothing. Is this car eeven running?
S4per - this guy went 11.8 @ 118 or something on the stage 1 kit…but then disappeared. Apparently he has the high boost kit now (as we saw from his video where his boost gauge hit 16.4 PSI)
Kryptonik - 93 octane test car in New Jersey. Hasn’t been to the strip, has a couple of issues that neither he nor the dealer he bought from can agree on (is it a tune issue? Is it a boost bypass issue?)…and the only testing he has done, he went pretty much even steven with a car that runs high 11s @ 119 on RACE GAS
So the AMD guys don’t appear to be holding up their end of the bargain either with respect to power and performance.
All in all, you have to do your research, and trust someone. If JHM says that running 15 PSI on the stock motor is a bad decision, I think I’d listen to them. If they’re selling the stage 2 kit at 8 or 9 PSI, and making around 525 whp on good pump gas, that’s what I would say is comfortable for the stock motor…and any more you’re asking for trouble.
UPDATED OCTOBER 17th, 2014
I wanted to start this thread to discuss the latest supercharger offerings for the RS4, and I named the thread as I did for a joke as these threads often turn into epic arguments. I don’t think this will, but you never know.
[b]Here are the fastest 1/4 mile elapsed times achieved by each of the offerings below (the ones who have run, at least). All cars on pump gas (94 or lower Ron+Mon/2) and street tires
JHM stage II (8 PSI) - 11.12 @ 125 (10.7 @ 130 was also run, but they haven’t released the specs on it other than full interior, street tires)
APR stage III (14.4 PSI) - 11.15 @ 123 (11.0 @ 129 on 100, and 10.6@130 on 104 stripped interior/exhaust,race slicks…car blew it’s motor shortly thereafter)
Aviva high pressure (16 PSI) - 11.36 @ 126
TTS (13 PSI) - 11.42 @ 125
Aviva low pressure (10 PSI) - 11.81 @ 118
APR TVSr1320 (8 PSI) - 11.83 @ 116
PES M90 (8 PSI) - 12.65 @ 110
VF M90 DNR
MTM Lysholm DNR[/b]
Here is a brief descripton of each kit offered
MTM - uses a Lysolm supercharger, twin screw. The staggering price, and the relative dearth of information make purchasing an MTM kit for your Rs4 a daunting task…and one that few people have ever undertaken. Unfortunately this is like a ghost in the supercharged 4.2 world.
TUNE: MTM
COST: $50,000 (that’s not a misprint…it’s EUR priced at 39,000 EUR…however I’ve heard they’ll negotiate lol)
CLAIMED GAINS: +115 hp over stock (crank)
ACTUAL GAINS: 411 whp on this dyno (which is 90-100 whp over stock). It was done at MTM Canada so grain of salt etc. Sounds legit though. It should be noted that he also had full exhaust with that blower kit when he dyno’d http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTCinWGQKHA
1/4 MILE RESULTS: ??? MTM provided some 100-200 data etc. but it’s useless because they stripped 350 lbs out of the car to do so…and it wasn’t done at a dragstrip or anything so who knows how they tested themselves. Disappointing because the kit appeas well put together…would be great to get one of these cars out to the strip.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
PES - used the Eaton M90 derived Magnussen MP90 supercharger. This supercharger, in the words of the makers at Eaton/Magnussen via compressor maps and tech folks directly, is capable of only making about 460-475 hp MAX. How on earth PES and VF could claim 150 crank gains over the RS4’s 420 hp stock, I’ll never understand. I guess they thought their customers wouldn’t check into the math lol. This turned out to be a collossal failure and has pretty much been forgotten here (but is having a renaissance with European and British buyers who aren’t up to speed on PES’ antics.
TUNE: PES
COST: $12,000
CLAIMED GAINS: +120 hp over stock (crank) and +109 torque (crank)
ACTUAL GAINS: ??? looks like about +50 hp crank over stock, based on performance, and independant dynos
1/4 MILE RESULTS: Kryptonik ran 12.6 @ 110-111 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrzMB4N4PHs
[b]EDIT: PES has announced they’re working on a new kit for the S5 that uses the smallest Whipple blower…which is like being the smallest Blue Whale…it’s still gigantic, capable of well over 1000 CFM
EDIT Oct 2013 One of their test cars released a dyno showing 530 WHP 490 WTQ on a dynojet in Penssylvania at Fabspeed performance. He then deleted the dyno IMMEDIATELY. Very strange, but standard PES. No idea about performance of course.
EDIT Oct 2014 The beta RS5 with the whipple kit has blown it’s motor, and been parted out. Rest in PES. [/b]
________________________________________________________________________________________________
VF Engineering - basically the Eaton M90 again…and a collossal failure again. This was GIAC tuned, and in their S4 kit, the GIAC tune was one of the weak points, so that doesn’t bode well for the RS4 kit. VF compensated 1FastS4 to promote the kit on the forums on his Ibis White RS4. This backfired drastically as he got into a habit of making excuses about not going to the dragstrip, and made up stories like claiming he beat a C6 Z06 in a highway pull lol. They never EVER got us any proof of performance. Lots of dyno and road course talk. Lots of good marketing (getting the kit on The Smoking Tire, magazines etc) but at the end of the day they hid from the forums once it became clear that it was a sham (relative to their claims). They have since pulled the kit off their web page.
TUNE: GIAC
COST: $13,000
CLAIMED GAINS: +125 whp
ACTUAL GAINS: ??? we never really saw anyone put it through its paces but we can assume PES like 50hp crank gains
1/4 MILE RESULTS: none…they never went (well they did…but they never shared the results). PES used the same blower, so not a bad proxy.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
OCT 2014 - APR HAVE REMOVED THEIR TVS1740 RS4 SUPERCHARGER KIT FROM THEIR WEBSITE
APR - they used the TVS1320, a rather small but VERY effective twin vortices series Eaton supercharger. Audi uses this on just about every platform above the A4 as an engine option on a 3.0 V6. This indicates a more suitable size matchup for the blower, but it still workd well on the RS4 even if it leaves a bunch of upside on the table. When it was first launched, the kit suffered…APR didn’t go to the dragstrip (or again, they didn’t tell us the results if they did) and all around it was looking like VF/PES part 3, even though the blower looked like it should work well to add 100 or so hp to the car. Turned out it was the APR tune…they had trouble taking a 4.2 FSI and tuning for supercharging. A few customers hit the strip and ran mid-high 12s…not good when the RS4 runs 12.8-12.9 STOCK. JHM’s tuner wrote a file for a friend with the APR kit that transformed the car. It went from 12.6 @ 108 to 12.0 @ 116 with just the tune change. APR asked to see the file, and started using it, in exchange for just mentioning that JHM’s tune was used on the kit. APR complied (great deal lol) but somehow managed to fuck that up with ARin and Stephen from APR denying any outside involvement. They later relented when it was clear half the forums knew the real story, and APR was losing face.
TUNE: JHM file adopted by APR
COST: $19,000, then later dropped to $15,000, then to $13,000
CLAIMED GAINS: 120 whp
ACTUAL GAINS: exactly what was claimed
1/4 MILE RESULTS: Keith @ APR ran 11.8 @ 116 in a customer’s car, and the Michigan customer who JHM originally helped with the tune ran 11.8 @ 119 www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx0EBeRp54w
[b]
EDIT: APR HAVE DISCONTINUED THE 1320 kit AND ARE UPDATING WITH THEIR TVS1740 BLOWER FROM THE RS5/R8 KIT FOR LATE FALL 2013
EDIT: Oct 2013 - APR have shared some information on development including a sneak preview of some dyno testing during tuning. 500 whp ecllipsed on pump gas. Release date anticipated towards the end of the fall
EDIT: Nov 2013 - APR took the car to the strip and run a bunch of great quarter mile times on various configurations.
Pump gas, full interior 11.15 @ 123
Race gas full interior 11.07 @ 129
Race gas, no interior, no catback, race slicks 10.60 @ 130
EDIT: JANUARY 2014
Price information : APR STAGE 3+ (TVSr1740) = $19,250
EDIT: SEPTEMBER 2014 - of the 3 known forum APR TVSr1740 cars, 2 have confirmed blown their engines (meem and GRD’s car). The third is @APR spokesperson Flying Tomatoes, whose car was last seen moving at Waterfest where it was belching smoke and put onto a trailer before being shipped across 3 states to his tuning shop of choice. Lots of claimed reasons for this, however he has also apparently bought 2 different used RS4 engines, so who the hell knows what’s going on
EDIT: OCTOBER 2014 - APR have removed the TVSr1740 supercharger kit from their webpage and are no longer selling it as of October 16, 2014. There were rumours of a patent dispute/lawsuit, however considering the longevity concerns, there may be other reasons.
[/b]
________________________________________________________________________________________________
TTS - This is a Rotrex C38-91 centrifugal supercharger, tuned by MRC Tuning in the UK. Not much is known about the kit, but they’re doing plenty of advertising etc. They definitely make great videos!
TUNE: MRC
COST: $21,000 USD (13,000 pounds sterling) $14,000 USD (9500 pounds sterling)
CLAIMED GAINS: 180 hp (crank) over a carbon cleaned stock RS4, on the MRC dyno
ACTUAL GAINS: ???
1/4 MILE RESULTS: none yet, although MRC is only 30 miles from Santa Pod, an IHRA dragstrip. Their first customer (DannyRS4) said he’s going to Santa Pod in a couple of weeks. edit: shitty weather and schedule problems + clutch problems + health problems meant this was cancelled (supposed to be 3 TTS cars, but it ended up being none)
EDIT - TTS went to the strip on Mar 10, 2012 and ran 11.7 @ 124.7 (discussed on page 6 of this thread)
EDIT #2- TTS went to the strip AGAIN and ran 11.42 @ 125.1 (FASTEST PUMP GAS B5/6/7/8 EVER!)
EDIT MAY 2013 - TTS lowered the price to 9500 pounds sterling = $14,000 USD May 2013
________________________________________________________________________________________________
JHM - this is a Vortech V3 centrifugal supercharger, located behind the passenger foglight and in the space created by moving the passenger side aux. radiator. The supercharger has been proven to work nicely on the B6/7 S4 with two cars running 11.9 @ 116 already, however on the B6/7 S4 the biggest challenge was reining in the power the V3 is capable of. Data from Vortech indicates it should be able to make 750-800 hp at the crank (not a misprint) but the S4 internals can’t handle much more than about 500 at the crank. The RS4, with its forged internals can certainly exercise more of the V3’s upside thanks to its lightly built from the factory setup (forged rods and pistons) so this will be very interesting. The kit was recently fitted to Dan@JHM’s in house RS4…so we should start to hear news trickling out this spring.
TUNE: JHM
COST: 7950 for the lower boost/non cooled kit; $10,900 for the stage 2 intercooled bigger boost kit (8 PSI); stage 3 unknown
CLAIMED GAINS: unknown, but the rumour mill has it close to 175-200 whp over stock
ACTUAL GAINS: ??? no dynos yet
1/4 MILE RESULTS: 11.34 @ 122, 11.36 @ 126.7
[b]UPDATE: PRICING AND 1/4 MILE RESULTS ADDED MAY 2013
EDIT: October 2013 JHM went to the dragstrip another time back in the spring, and went a good bit quicker than their 11.34 RS4 record. How much quicker? They’re not saying yet. I guess when you’re the fastest, what motivation do you have to announce beating your own record. Reminds me of Sergei Bubka
EDIT: NOVEMBER 2013 - JHM posted their fastest time 11.12 @ 125
EDIT: MARCH 2014 - JHM posted their 2013 year in review video, and showed a 10.7 @ 130.4 with full interior and street tires
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl0alYXVIkA
[/b]
________________________________________________________________________________________________
AVIVA-AMD…recently renamed again to ‘GMG Performance Supercharger’ - AMD appears to be working on a kit, but the details and seriousness of the project have remained very foggy. Apparently they’re using a TVS1900 supercharger, the same one on the Cadillac CTS-V in one version of the kit, and a TVS2300 the Corvette ZR1 supercharger in the other. AMD have been very tight lipped on this…rumour is they have fitted the unit to a donor car, but it is not moving yet.
EDIT: Update from Jon@AVIVA . Looks like 1900 in multiple boost and cooling configurations rather than the 1900+2300 as originally thoughtBased on a Eaton TVS R1900. Centrally mounted in the engine with twin custom Air-Water intercoolers. 5-Axis CNC AL machined plenum & runners. Made available in two performance levels. LP [Low pressure] & HP [High Pressure]. Designed and manufactured between both companies. New High flow fuel rails manage fuel around the new plenum.
TUNE: It will available with and without software. AMD and EPL have been working closely to offer a turn key file. Customers and tuners are welcome to use the hardware as a platform for their own custom tune. The calibration and hardware has been to the track ( road coarse ) for the 2nd weekend. COST: Initial release for Installation at AMD Washington or BBI in Socal has been around 10k. the LP system will not leave this price range. After preliminary testing where the big boost kit went 11.8@120 (disappointing is the only word for it) they changed the tuner to United Motorsports and dropped EPL altogether
COST: $11,000 for the low boost kit (9-10 PSI) and $14,500 for the higher boost kit (16 PSI) although this information has been pieced together…no official announcements from anyone at these companies
CLAIMED GAINS: Approximately 400-430 whp for the lower boost kit and 500 to 525 for the higher boost kit with upgraded fuelling and cooling
ACTUAL GAINS: ??? however based on 1/4 mile performance , they look to be delivering on claims
1/4 MILE RESULTS: low boost kit 11.8 @ 118 and high boost kit 11.36 @ 126.8 (fastest RS4 ever, and fastest B5/6/7/8 ever on pump gas…for about 2 weeks till JHM beat them)
*** it should be noted that the kit will by default come with an 8000 RPM redline, however users can opt for an 8500 RPM redline. This seems to put the risk of the decision in the hands of the buyer. A bit odd. The 1/4 mile results were set with the 8500 RPM redline…no word on 8000 RPM performance.
UPDATE: PRICING, DYNO AND 1/4 MILE RESULTS ADDED MAY 2013
UPDATE: AFTER SEVERAL CONFLICTING STORIES ON HOW MUCH BOOST AMD /AVIVA WAS RUNNING, A VIDEO POSTED BY AN OWNER SHOWED A BOOST GAUGE HITTING 16.3 PSI ON THE HIGH PRESSURE KIT
Holy thread revival, but has anybody determined just how much the Stock RS4 engine can handle before it is compromised. JHM’s Stage II runs high 10’s, but how long ago was this (is it still pulling strong) and was it stock block? Would like to hopefully continue to build upon with the stock internals, but don’t want to have to worry about grinding the engine.
whos running 10s stage 2? i didn’t think anyone broke in there yet.
welcome to the RS4…
(2013)
http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b601/rs4elitist/JHM107_zps191af61c.png
and if it still counts, APR went 10s on slicks, race gas, stripped interior, pulled exahust and probably 25psi…lol
You can’t even buy that supercharger right now.
That blue is very painful! Anyway, I contacted Jake to see if he can give me some insight from his sources. I am comfortable with going Stage II, but want to have a safety net for mooooaar down the line. Hopefully, I can get a little bit about their built RS4 engines.
It might be too early to call this definitively proven but it appears we’re see the results of testing on customers cars by these companies. JHM seems to be the only company to actually be looking at past results from other platforms. I’ve never seen any performance company make a forced induction kit for a NA motor that made more then 8psi.
+1 on observations.
they ran 10s in 2013
we have a thread about engine strength. From three years ago.
Not many NA motors are forged though…JHM is really just doing it JHMs way, it doesn’t have anything to do with other platforms.
Also note the RS4 high compression ratio…higher redline, it truly makes the V8 very different than most.
Not trying to argue, I just think this is how JHM operates and I’m sure we will eventually know why they choose certain boost levels/power levels.
I read that one but, as you said, it was from three years ago. I didn’t know if anyone had some epiphanies occur IIRC, that thread used a lot of HP numbers, but those are going to vary from dyno to dyno and all sorts of other variables. I guess I basically want to know if the Stage II JHM kit is the highest one can go on stock internals, or is it potentially capable of safely handling more? I guess I would directly need to PM CV for his thoughts on that. Anyway, thanks!!!
Why don’t you just let JHM tell you what they found? Clearly they will not push the stock motor to its limit. So if they’re comfortable putting out a kit that makes 500 whp at 8 or 9 PSI (can’t remember) well that’s what I would consider safe.
Of all the companies we have discussed here, only 1 actually owns an RS4 (JHM), and only 1 has done 2-3 years of boosted RS4 R&D (JHM). Only one has a supercharger that can make 700+ whp, thus must be reigned in, (and will actually care about motor limits)
So if you think the engine is comfotable with 16 psi and 600 whp as the APR cars seem to be advertising…that’s fine. It should be mentioned that of the 3 APR cars we know of, MEEM - motor blew in a month
GRD (APR dealer) - motor blew a few months back
FlyingTomatoes - keeps having his car taken appart…belching loads of smoke, and then getting shipped to shops hundreds of miles away for ‘bad spark plug’ bullshit excuses…and apparently he has bought 2 used RS4 engines in the past couple of months (take from that what you will)
Sounds like 0 for 3 for the APR kit. Now that it has been pulled from their website, I guess that’s one option that needn’t be discussed anymore.
SO all around, it appears that running 16+ PSI and whatever power you want to make up isn’t working.
The AmvivGMG cars are so variable.
Woodi - customer who lent them his car that went 11.36 @ 126 when they tested it after 2 weeks of tuning (lol) - have we heard ANYTHING from him since? Nothing. Is this car eeven running?
S4per - this guy went 11.8 @ 118 or something on the stage 1 kit…but then disappeared. Apparently he has the high boost kit now (as we saw from his video where his boost gauge hit 16.4 PSI)
Kryptonik - 93 octane test car in New Jersey. Hasn’t been to the strip, has a couple of issues that neither he nor the dealer he bought from can agree on (is it a tune issue? Is it a boost bypass issue?)…and the only testing he has done, he went pretty much even steven with a car that runs high 11s @ 119 on RACE GAS
So the AMD guys don’t appear to be holding up their end of the bargain either with respect to power and performance.
All in all, you have to do your research, and trust someone. If JHM says that running 15 PSI on the stock motor is a bad decision, I think I’d listen to them. If they’re selling the stage 2 kit at 8 or 9 PSI, and making around 525 whp on good pump gas, that’s what I would say is comfortable for the stock motor…and any more you’re asking for trouble.
the high end cars are almost all forged pistons at the very least, if not rods and pistons
i.e. M3, C63 PP, etc