Some fun speculating...

B8 S4
#101

Absolutely and I see what you are saying so don’t get me wrong there.

From what I have read the ZF DSG in the longitudinal applications is rated to ~440lb-ft of torque. The transverse DSG was about 260lb-ft. (there is a new transverse unit for the TT-RS) The big rumor surrounding the original DSG was that the transmission would blow up at those levels (aka with a chip alone) but nothing has happened. I think the torque curve is more important than the actual numbers alone. The 2.0T you are referring to in your A4 is also different and has more torque than the longitudinal setup found in the A5/6 chassis (a3/tt/mk5)

With all that said, 500wtq has been done and he’s not the only one…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st0GGf8kc4M

Obviously there is a breaking point, I just don’t think its as low as some are speculating and when that’s reached someone will upgrade the clutch packs! (and that will probably be when there are a lot more options and tuners in the game) Seemingly the worst that has happened is the clutch packs starting to slip and cases of the unit overheating but audi has already aided in the reduction of that problem by having two different oil circuits

And a 7 minute overview of the transmission from ZF if anyone wants to watch it…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd10wif87Qk

#102

Cool.

The ‘ratings’ mean very little too. Someone on the OEM side told Me most everything on these German cars can be pushed to 150% of OEM levels comfortably. Its one of the reasons the cars cost so much…they are heavily overengineered. If only they could overestimate some epic reliability into the equation!

Looking forward to SEe what happens. At this stage I am starting to think you guys won’t even get stage three before half of the current B8 guys have sold their cars. Many have already sold and pioneers like 81bear and Jspazz are already hinting at moving on.

P.S. Speculating that a 40 whp/wtq bump from a tune will kill the Trans means someone in high school with no money to fix a Trans is making fear based guesses. Reality tells us that is never going to happen.

However making double what the car came with stock, and making more than the cars Audi didn’t feel comfortable using the transmission in…that’s a whole different story. Don’t forget we have already seen a few B8 S4 guys with transmission problems after getting tuned and running race gas files and pushing 450-475 crank torque…at least one if whom is in this forum. Lets not assume those were just ‘unlucky’. They are likely the highest power Audi DSG cars we have seen so far.and the Trans have had their share of problems. I don’t remember hearing tip transmission guys destroying transmissions on 400 whp B6/7 S4s.

#103

The tiptronic box in the C5 RS6 was a weak point iirc.

#104

Power wise? I.e. it would grenade?

Or just that people didn’t like it and its slow shifting and power sapping qualities?

#105

Tsk tsk. Saw this on the zoo

[QUOTE=ilspazzaneve;8262982]Allegedly supposedly there is already a member here with an S4 with the stage III blower and intake module on the car.

But it’s unlikely you’ll see him talking about it here…

Everything else in this thread’s a tease, but I don’t lie (much).

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@per/documents/content/ct_127899.gif
[/quote]

#106

Shouldn’t you have copied that on the “lulz” thread hahahaha…how do you “quote” threads (to copy them) without an account? :wink: I would love to know who you are on AZ now, you know I’d never tell (no matter how pissed off you get me), but would be hilarious to see your posts…maybe I’ve already seen them…!

Anyhow it was said in the other thread…just reporting the news.

#107

You can just copy text and use quote tags, don’t need an account

[quote=jayawardene]Like this
[/quote]
Hybrid name

#108

yeah, with the thread number and everything…lol…

I know what you “can” do, I’m implying what you do…:slight_smile:

#109

gotcha. No secret.

Anyway where is this supposedly, allegedly, purportedly already stage three car? Is it someone who will test the car for us or is it someone who will just pull the usual?

Arin should likely be first, no?

#110

PP said in the Eurotuner thread that its already on Arin’s car, yes. Arin contributed in that thread but didn’t deny…it’s been a long time since I’ve emailed Arin (stage II beta I guess at the beginning of the year), but I’m sure he scans these threads…

My one-of-a-kind ‘assembled in Canada’ S4 still has a rash of problems to even think about stage II right now let alone stage III. But it’s nice to keep up with the rumours…and I’m sure Arin scans these threads…I’m mostly curious if its indeed the 1900 and if they put bigger intercoolers on the intake module…

#111

will be interesting to see what happens.

I hope the rumours about the S4 getting it well into 2013 are true (selfishly) because that means it will already be launched on the 4.2 FSI cars.

Seems a better business case at first glance to launch it for the S4 but I’m not sure. APR built a supercharger for the B6 S4 and ditched it because it didn’t work as well as they had hoped delta wise (they chose the modest sized Eaton M90). Then they created a TVS1320 kit for the RS4 and didn’t bother with the S4. I always found that weird. I guess they didn’t want to have to re-engineer the entire fuelling system and intake etc. It worked on the S5 though.

Anyway, maybe the more expensive RS cars, while rare, mean they can charge a serious premium for the product (they sold PLENTY of TVS1320 kits at $18,995)? Then they can trickle it down to the S4/S5 3.0T after a while?

All guesses. It would make sense to me, at first blush, to launch it for the 3.0T guys but the other side of that is that there is zero competition (as far as a stage 3 B8 S4 3.0T kit) whereas the RS4/RS5 world is about to have a few big supercharger options launched.

#112

Yeah, interesting take. I keep thinking how many B8 S4s there are on the road, and how little RS5s there are. And there is such a pent-up demand at this point for the S4 blower upgrade, and I’d say that will start to wane, as first owners move out of these cars and a used car market starts developing. I just can’t see the economical buyer who got into these cars sub-$40K spending $10-15K on a blower/supercharger module upgrade. They have to target the original owners first, so they have to deliver it soon.

Say with the B5 S4, the stage III upgrades really picked up once it became more affordable, and especially once people could start piecing together their own kits. This isn’t the APR market. Funny thing was, these buyers usually spent more than double, likely $12K+, compared to what they originally intended since the motor had to come out, and had a failure-prone car to deal with afterwards.

With the B8 S4 blower/intake module upgrade, it may be expensive to get in, but as simple as pie to install, and easy to sell afterwards. The economical buyer will be short-sighted on this and likely won’t buy it…only the original owner will fork out that sort of cash from the beginning, and realize the benefits of resale and ease of install. In terms of resale, the TVS blower itself thus far seems a lot more bulletproof than their older blowers, it may be the only part on the B8 s4 that we’ve had zero failures on, AFAIK. Conversely, I couldn’t throw a used b5 turbo far enough away to feel comfortable about my clothes not getting oil on them…

How many B7 RS4s/ B8 RS5s are there on the road? I honestly have no idea, but it isn’t that many, is it?

#113

North America 2500 RS4
UK I think had 3000 RS4
Germany too
Rest of the world another few thousand

1500 coupes RS5 for America but not sure on the ROW

To be honest total S4 market is meaningless because the grand majority are in the hands of business people and women etc (gross generalization). It became the only V6 option for A4 buyers after they killed the 3.2 off, and dropping the price of the S4 really helped sales so lots of the owners are A4 buyers who didn’t want a four cylinder car. People like my neighbor who asked me what fuel efficient Audi sedan to get, and knowing he didn’t give a shit about performance, I suggested an A4 2.0t s line. He said he didn’t want a four banger…so I told him about the S4. He bought it and loves it but won’t as much as tint the windows as far as mods go, let alone supercharger upgrade.

Although you guys do have a very active community.

With that being said when supercharger options became available for the b6/7 S4 (PES, VF engineering), the APR RS4 kit outsold them.

#114

I did some research…1300 total RS4s for the US (about 650 each year of 2007 and 2008). Let’s say about 200 in Canada making that 1500 for the run.

As you say, 1500 RS5s for NA.

There have got to be 12000-15000 S4s running around the US alone…the only sales figure I can find is that there were 4100 for the 2011 s-tronic, so that’s my conservative extrapolation…and consider it was already their best selling S4 model, and 13500 B5s were sold in NA…

At the beginning of the year, APR said they had already sold more than 1000 tunes for the S4. That was “before” dealer flashing - who wants to bet that number has doubled? Factor in REVO, Stasis, and GIAC, I’m sure we are talking 3000 flashed B8 S4s roaming the streets.

The stage III market will be big for the S4, I’d bet they’ll easily unload a first batch of couple hundred within a month or less. If APR doesn’t deliver it first, like they did with the flash, they will lose out. I’d bet RS5 owners would be more willing to wait out their honeymoon period with their new toy before bolting on a bigger booster, and even if they do, I’d say a lot of them are the people everyone calls APR fanboys, and wait it out rather than going with another tuner’s kit…

#115

Something I notice looking at the production numbers…there will be a huge amount of 3.0Ts available in the future, assuming the long block is essentially the same piece of hardware across the S5, A6, Q7, and now the Q5, plus the A4 3.0T in other markets. Lol anyone who saw my “wrecked” thread will understand the amount of salvage inventory already made available by the original owners, and in several cases even dealers…just wait until the used 3.0T market starts totaling these cars, and I’d offer there is no question that parts availability alone will make this “the” Audi tuning platform for the next 5-10 years.

Stage III would be a lot more palatable so long as I knew there were many motors sitting in salvage for cheap, just like there is for the 2.7T now. 22 psig pump gas tune? Yeah, sure I’d try it…!

#116

Saki, BTW when I was joking about you having an AZ account I was truly genuine in joking…I just did some war room reading for the first time, and had no idea people were talking about fake AZ accounts there (among other things…). Politics ain’t my game…J

#117

that’s bad research!

about 2500 RS4 sedans for the US and Canada
300 convertibles

I think you saw those numbers posted on Audizine recently, but they’re way off.

Here…John Stahmann has 1900 RS4s registered on this list alone, and hundreds are missing (for example my car, Mistro’s car, and abotu half a dozen guys on Audizine who posted looking for a list like this this past week

http://www.stahmann-motorsports.com/RS4Registry/RS4_VIN_List.htm

#118

there was an A7 motor + transmission for sale for only $6000. There’s a link to it in our classifieds I think.

#119

[quote=“Jspazz,post:115,topic:3511”]
22+ on race gas will be much better! :stuck_out_tongue: