Maybe I need to end each post with “please applaud if you liked this” like on YouTube. Otherwise one jaded person with no life can tank your account in 30 days. Conjecture and experimentation are not welcome in a monoculture. The politicization of the un-board is real.
I had better get with the program and devote my life to beating a stock mustang in the 1/4 mile or my days here are numbered.
But once again, it isn’t one person that doesn’t like your posts…it’s probably 20!
It’s comments like your last one that are just fucking stupid. You went to the strip, you fucking sucked at driving end of story. You don’t like to shift fast while on a track…that is your choice
This whole act of “poor west” is annoying, so just stop the BS.
Not sure what I did but I am at 3 and I know I pissed a bunch of people off. I have discovered that people usually only mad if you say something really stupid, make false claims or try to lead people in the wrong direction. Back up your arguments with facts bring proof not conjecture be honest and treat people good then I think you will be fine look I made it to 3 I was -2 at one time I think. and listen of dozens people have spent thousands of dollars on products and these guys say they are bullshit take there word for it. What? you think they want your car to remain slow? they genuinely want you spend you money wisely. I didn’t get that at first I got slapped up side the head then realized they are doing all they can to help me. if I don’t want to listen I am not a productive member and need to go. Its kinda like survivor if you cant coexist or help out you get voted off the island.
^^ Lol nice Survivor reference. Love that show.
I largely agree with your post. Another way to quickly sink into negative territory is by bashing the site or its members. West has done that many times now.
[quote=“justincredible,post:73,topic:7207”]
This coming from the person who keeps ignoring/refusing my offer to debate this in a forum of experts.
I can quote a dozen things you’ve said here to show that you don’t understand mass, volume, efficiency, or how to tell them from a compressor map.
But what is the point if the people here generally can’t tell the difference?
I’m not going to sit here and be ridiculed (in a fairly impolite fashion I might add) by someone who doesn’t even remember his physics class.
Either we go somewhere with a suitably educated audience or you can continue to wallow in your own ignorance. If you do not accept then I can only assume you’re not as certain of your facts as you are projecting.
[quote=“JCviggen,post:85,topic:7207”]
lol at trying to move a discussion to another forum. That’s never going to work.
The reality of the situation is you made a blanket statement that justin pointed out was not very defensible. His original concern was your blanket statement that turbochargers are better than superchargers. You used words like ‘ultimately’ and ‘always’…which as I mentioned paint you into a corner in a written or verbal argument.
Ignoring his concern with this statement, you then chose to ridicule his grammar and spelling. English is his second language. As someone who deoesn’t speak or write Russian very well, but is living in Moscow, I think you’d understand his situation. Let’s see you debate the internal combustion engine in Russian on a forum. I can’t wait.
On my way to work I was thinking about how much I dislike turbochargers. One thing Justin said was that it takes 2 turbochargers to do the work of one supercharger. In my understanding of what he said, he was referring to the ability to make big power, but also to deliver a very solid powerband. You then scoffed at this and said that it is exhaust manifold/headers driven necessitating the need for two. Reality is that this is incorrect. We have seen a number of very succesful single turbo V layout projects. However they tend to struggle generating low end torque in the powerband at low RPMs RPM. Optimally, two turbos of moderate size will deliver this. Or one smaller and one larger turbo. However rarely do we see a single turbo V6 or V8 that is able to match the powerband of a well sized supercharger.
Anyway, that’s my take.
just as you refuse to believe acceleration results from dozens of members on the forums, and instead think your car is ‘normal’ and what to expect, while the others are all unrealistic, you are doing the same here. You think I spend enough time to negative rep you more than once a blue moon when you act like an idiot?
As I said, there are likely dozens of people who given you negative rating points, and you can contact the site admin to confirm that. It’s not ‘1 person’. Hell 7 people have chimed in on giving you negative rating points in this thread alone.
Ever think the reason you stand alone on these issues…is you?
[quote=“JCviggen,post:85,topic:7207”]
I’m with you JC. I just don’t have enough time in my day to spend hours writing posts to show where Justin is wrong. He doesn’t understand the difference between volumetric efficiency and isentropic efficiency. He doesn’t understand that radial compressors don’t have a volumetric efficiency. He doesn’t understand that centrifugal superchargers and turbochargers use essentially identical compressor wheels and they are built to run at different speeds. Hey Justin…did you know that turbocharging is a form of supercharging? A turbocharger is a centrifugal compressor (same as a Vortech) with a turbine attached to a common shaft. He doesn’t understand that pulling two random compressor maps off Google images is not a good way to compare superchargers to turbochargers. He doesn’t understand that you’re saying turbochargers are more efficient due to the fact that it has a turbine which is recovering otherwise wasted energy. It takes a lot of power to run a compressor and the power to supply the compressor comes from different sources.
The term ‘blanket statement’ is thrown around all the time. Just so I don’t make any ‘blanket statements’ I’m not claiming a supercharger is always better than a turbocharger. They are application specific and both have their positive and negatives. I do agree with JC that a turbocharger, under almost all operating conditions, is more efficient than a supercharger.
Go ahead Justin. Please continue rambling on about topics you are completely unfamiliar with. I’m actually amazed that no one else here has chimed in and told Justin off. I do think guys like Euro and Saki are assholes and don’t agree with all of their posts but they seem to have their facts straight. Don’t either of you guys see through the BS?
So much for your “blanket statement” pledge.
Dude you’re nine posts in and are already slamming well-respected members? Pretty bad form. That -1 on you member rating is from me.
And mine as well. Thank you for reading what I continued to say and the only actual thing I was talking about.
I appreciate it.
it’s easy to say oh I would post and show you how wrong you are and not do it. But the funny thing is I’ve just been saying this.
To be clear I have wanted to have been saying that JC is wrong when he used his opinion as facts as they never stand. And that in the world of turbos and superchargers they each offer great results… to use a blanket statement to say over all one is better then the other is not only false but completely absent of the understanding of each. And again while the compressor maps don’t tell the entire story they do tell one that says there’s not room to say anything in a blanket statement.
I admit to taking loose terms in an attempt to make a point. But my point is obviously seen by the majority. I’m not here to advance not the turbo Vs supercharger debate just mearly here to say opinions are not facts.
it’s easy to pick apart what I say when I’m not actually advancing the argument. I already stated they mechanical drive Vs exhaust drive is like the electronic car vs gas powered or manual Vs auto.
“Hey assholes, don’t you agree with me?”
Pretty great way to gain support.
I don’t really care about this argument because there is no winner, there never will be, but JC said their was an absolute winner. That is opinion, not truth…that ends the discussion.
I think what you don’t realize is that JC came here with the idea that nothing is true unless it fits into his criteria. He wants to controls all the tests and variables, if not then he can’t believe it. I get that he is intelligent, but sometimes that is a persons flaw…he wants to analyze and put a equation behind everything and he wants to throw out real world testing and proven results. Sometimes an equation or computer program just doesn’t work…you need to be hands on and actually understand what you are working with.
And in theory, they are. I clearly contrasted that in what I actually wrote. Also I would like to draw attention to the word “measurable” which I used. The only measurable way in which I think a supercharger is ultimately better is throttle response and the (lack of) boost threshold. But you still need to choose between getting a lot of torque low down (positive displacement SC) which is then less than ideal at the top end of the rev range or a centrifugal one which isn’t really that hot at low revs even compared to a turbo.
If you go and measure the area under the torque curve, efficiency or outright power capability the turbo will be ahead. In most/nearly all measurable ways a turbo is better at doing what these things are meant to do: increase power output. If you think that’s a wild blanket statement then OK, have it your way.
[quote]you then chose to ridicule his grammar and spelling.
[/quote]
Was that in this topic? I said I wasn’t trying to be a grammar nazi but if I look back he is clearly putting in the effort now which I think it raises the level of the discussion. I always do my best so I like to see others return the favor…it’s clearly not a matter of lack of knowledge in that area.
[quote] Reality is that this is incorrect. We have seen a number of very succesful single turbo V layout projects. However they tend to struggle generating low end torque in the powerband at low RPMs RPM.
[/quote]
I think that goes back to the “someone in a shed probably won’t manage it” point. The exhaust manifold to make a V engine single is complicated and you need to do considerable engineering on the lengths of the tubes to make sure each exhaust pulse arrives at the turbine at the right time. Also, most single turbo setups tend to go for quite a serious amount of power which doesn’t help the lag situation.
tmorgan4, I appreciate you made me look slightly less lonely here lol