91 TUNED vs. 93 STOCK

B8 S4
#1

We need to make this race happen.

After seeing the GIAC 91 DSG B8 S4 car run 12.9 @ 109 in great density altitude…and comparing that mentally with turbobaby’s stock DSG car that ran 13.0 @ 106 in much worse DA on 94 octane pump gas and stock tune of course…I was thinking…is voiding your warranty for a 91 file really worth it? I’m thinking not of GIAC, who also gives you a 93 or 100 etc…but I’m thinking Stasis.

The Stasis guys are voiding their warranty for a 91 octane only rebadged APR tune that is slightly neutered vs. the APR 91 proper file (we assume). Is that really worth it?

I would like to set up a race between a 91 Stasis car and a stock car on 93 or 94. I have a friend with a bone stock manual car if anyone knows of a manual Stasis car with just a tune? That’s in the Greater Toronto Area of course.

#2

EYE opening post. I have to agree. Seems the B8 might be a little like the B5 in the respect that some tunes are just a joke and if you want a strong running car bring the C16

#3

Interesting indeed. Although the Stasis guys suggest that an update is coming to the software shortly as a result of the Revo merger. Regardless the B5 guys indeed went through this with the poo-speed tune it was hardly with the $500 that Neuspeed charged given its anemic results.

#4

With all due respect, Sak, I don’t see the point.

Look at APR’s own numbers for the difference in peak HP between their 91 and 93 tunes. It’s 8 hp.:

http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_30tfsi_b8s4.html

Combine that minimal difference with different drivers, tracks and days, and I fail to see how a race like that would be justified.

You said it yourself in an earlier post - stock DSG cars run 13.0-13.1 @ 106, and 91/93 tune-only cars run high 12s at 109-ish. What more should anyone expect from tune that produces its biggest gains over 5500 rpm?

Now, if your point is that a few tenths and a few mph don’t justify a voided warranty, well welcome to the dilemma of whether to tune or not. It’s a personal decision at that point.

#5

I don’t really care much for dynos frankly, so there’s certainly a point.

also why would it be ‘different tracks and different days’ skewing the results? We’re trying to arrange pulls. Or a dragstrip day. Or pbox data. No variables.

finally I don’t think its a few tenths or a few mph…that’s the whole point. I suspect its like 1 tenth…but that’s he point. Nobody has shown what it actually is…just a bunch of dynos.

#6

Still trying to make this race happen.

Since we know my car can be even with or beat GIAC or Stasis tuned B8 S4s…and since we know my friends bone stock B8 S4 on 94 octane PetroCanada/Sunoco pump gas is equal with me…I am reasonably sure the stock car on better fuel will beat the 91 tuned car on 91 fuel.

Any local volunteers in the greater toronto area with Stasis 91 tuned, APR 91 tuned or GIAC 91 tuned cars want to head out to the dragstrip in the fall? We’re going to get a big group to go and it would be interesting to test this out.

To further explain this and the uselessness of dynos, GIAC posted a dyno result from a locally tuned 91 GIAC car that made something like 102 WHP over stock (they showed 404 WHP on 91). If my bone stock RS4 is beating a car that makes 404 whp and 370 wtq, either something is hella wrong with that dyno result…or my car secretly has an APR supercharger on it (which it doesn’t). So let’s see some actual racing, rather than dyno racing.

#7

Where are you located? anywhere near NYC and I’m game…

My stasis tuned S4 ran a ~13.6 60-130 compared to multiple stock times of 16.5+. If you don’t think thats a significant difference, than I’m not sure what is…

edit: missed the line about being in toronto… oops

#8

lol no problem

Are you running 91 octane? Or 93 octane? Remember this is regarding 91 octane tuned cars running 91 octane vs. stock cars running 93-94 octane.

You have the new Stasis that was written by Revo, correct? To be honest, REVO does enough with the tune that it will likely blow a hole through my theory. When we started this thread months ago, I was referring to the people forking over $1500 for a Stasis 91 file (that was a neutered version of APR’s 91 file). I think they were basically substituting an Audi warranty for a Stasis warranty, and then picking up maybe a car length in a highway pull. Not worth it. Same goes for GIAC and APR 91.

The REVO tunes push the parameters a bit more than the other guys so they appear to be making serious gains.

Again though…remember the whole thing was about people running 91 tunes on 91 octane. If you’re on 93 octane, you’re kind of blowing up the experiment.

p.s. 60-130 times are sure interesting but I don’t think they’re nearly as relevant as a quarter mile time or a 0-60 mph time.

How often do you hit 130 MPH day to day with your car? If you’re saaying the tune is fantastic at adding delta at double or triple the speed limit…a.k.a. speeds that are big enough to get you arrested in most states, I am not sure I’m as excited about it. I drive my car daily and hit 100 mph once in a while but certainly not often…and I can’t say I’m really ever hitting 130 mph.

if I told you that I had a tune that made your car faster in reverse, would you be all over it? Probably not because you don’t really care about driving in reverse, right? Well I don’t really think most people care about driving at 130 MPH either. My RS4 will hit 190 MPH, so let’s compare a tuned B8 S4 0-190 MPH vs. my RS4 0-190 MPH. Relevant test? Getting ridiculous right?

At these huge speeds, the delta looks massive because it frankly is. If you evaluated your purchases based on what the product does at irrelevant situations (130MPH) and justified the purchase based on the delta in reaching that irrelevant situation (which is massive) you might be making a decision that doesn’t really reflect the right things people want in a tune.

i.e. your REVO/STASIS tuned tuned car might run from 0-100 MPH in around 11.0 seconds, and a stock B8 S4 might do so in 11.2 seconds. Not much of a difference…only 2 carlengths. The gap gets exponentially wider as you run from 100-130 MPH. Eventually it is around 3 seconds which at those speeds is a football field. I’m guessing there. Would be interesting to see.

#9

Has your opinion changed since seeing my results? ;D ;D

#10

No because you ran on 93.

Fastest stock tune us 12.69 and you were what…three tenths faster? My theory was that the 91 file on 91 is only good for a couple of tenths. You beat stock record by three tenths.

Go back on 91, and beat it by three tenths and I will buy you a Coke and a hot dog at the snack bar.

Your time is awesome though. I added it on the qmile list here same day. has Arin added you on AZ yet? :wink:

#11

I would never “go back” to 91 because it’s hard to come by. Im in Delaware so it’s 100% 93 octane with Sonoco as an exception, who has both

I dont think it should really be looked at as the “stock record” vs others. I think the best way is really to take the same car and do a before and after. That “stock record” could have been from a “freak” car with more power from the factory, or as u can see from my scenario - due to awesome conditions. The situation you speak of where it “only” improves it by a few tenths is in my opinion not really valid. It’s like comparing dyno numbers, which to me are useless because of the variability. I still say take the same car and do a before an after with 1/4 mile track times and I’m pretty confident it will be pretty significant. Or even if the time isn’t too significant, I think the MPH still is. I feel like every 1-2 mph increase already makes the car much faster.

All in all, this is bench racing. Line em up!

And yes Arin did. It looks like I’m the 4th fastest 93 octane car there

Edit: that 12.69 looks like it trapped at only 108. Even though my car is only 3 tenths quick, it trapped 6 mph higher which is a huge difference

#12

go back to the dragstrip on a tank of 91. That’s really really easy to do. Then you’ll be able to sort of see the delta between running 91 and 93.

I’m quite confident you’ll find it is 2 tenths.