After 12 years the B5 S4 seems to be going backwards really

General Discussion
#1

Strictly what I’ve noticed over the course of several years I listed below. This thread wasn’t designed to bash or make one company stand out over the other but is designed to look back & reflect where the B5 S4 stands today.

After 12+ yrs the B5 S4 seems to be lacking a versatile turbo setup for a reasonable price.
Versatile meaning “a turbo of quality that performs well down low, mid-range & up top without going broke”

                                          [center] [center][b][u]So far we have the usually below[/u][/b][/center][/center]

RS4 K04 setup (good low – great mid range turbo) expensive & hard to get. Than we have the hybrid setups ie larger compressor wheel “no better than the factory RS4 turbo, this has proven to be a large failure for many years. The turbine wheel & housing is far too small “makes the upgraded compressor wheel useless”.

RS6 setup (ok low, great mid – good upper mid range turbo, not much top end) too much money, work & hard to get! With all the modifications needed to make them fit like (cutting, shaving, welding & relocating made these near impossible for the average consumer to take the set of RS6 turbos and make them fit) Than we had very expensive hybrid setups, proved some success but companies abandoned them quickly, the turbine wheel was never addressed properly. Once again to much work, time, talent needed to make them fit. Not practical for the cost of the full setup!

Tial 605 kit (good mid – good upper mid turbo) very large fancy compressor wheel journal bearing turbo with a pretty fairly small turbine wheel in comparison to the compressor wheel, same mistake the hybrids listed above makes in my opinion. Very comparable to the standard RS6 with a little more peak hp gains but you have to run 32+lbs, more expensive, does bolt on but lacks the low – mid that the RS6 has but doesn’t overall outperform the standard RS6 when looking at the complete power band.

Tial 770 kit (good mid – very limited top end) this setup is really expensive, plan on running 35 - 40+lbs of boost to achieve nothing more than your standard GT kit at 26-28lbs, the priciest setups to date for the parts you get or don’t get by the time you’re done collecting all the parts. They don’t come with down pipes or manifolds. For this power band & setup one would do far better with a custom GT kit where turbo selection & custom wheels are wide & readily available. This setup isn’t justifiable with realistic gains to support the overall project cost at all.

GT kits (great mid – insane top end range turbo) not real fun driving at low rpms & speed. I would say strictly for the guy who wishes to go all out from start to finish while addressing the entire car from end to end. Down side “full kit not readily available & if you don’t go all out ie total car build then it’s pointless” When done correctly you’ll have a super car +!! Have check book ready & maybe you’re first born!!!

I know JHM has been talking about getting their B5 program spiced up, maybe JHM or someone can find a much needed in between turbo setup that works in everyday fashion where you don’t need 30+lbs of boost to make for a great all around accelerating car.

Heres the link in the B5 S4 forum…
http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=4o2vejobklfqntoseutscfg2j4&topic=371.msg5467#msg5467

#2

I don’t really see how they are going backwards.

3.0 stroker kits are a little bit more accessible (availability, not cheap), single turbo projects are the big thing at the moment and they are making great power. look at Guru;s build (yes it is an all out no cost issue build but it is still impressive to see) there’s the 034 Gti RS VW car is not relevant but the engine definitely is.

You said it in your post that some of the turbo’s have fitment issues, its not like there is a lot of space in there to fit bigger or different turbo’s. Also I think we will start to see some of the new BW EFR turbo builds coming out next year, since there are only a couple of 1.8t using that turbo.

The only reason it feels like it is going backwards is that a lot of options have been exacerbated, these are not like Supra’s where obtaining 600-1000whp is easy and a quite a lot of turbo options. I just dont see how 500-650awhp is something to snub your nose at

#3

If they really are and there not sorry.

True we have stroker motors but really the car can and will go plenty fast without 75% of what people are really led to believe.

My opinion is simple “the shop who post real world info/data time & time again without fancy dyno charts but with actually facts of performance like track times from a true daily driver etc is the shop I would rather trust & deal with”. How many of those shops are out there right now for the Audi.

To be honest the only car that ever makes power are the dyno queen shop cars & friends cars but only in their controlled environment to solely push their product line.

The data out is very unrealistic, the numbers are so far skewed, those shop cars & close friends can’t keep cars together on the street let alone the track, that’s why there’s no track times from these companies after several yrs. The outcome of the cars that did go to the track went low 12ss & barely went into the 120 mph range which is pathetic so no times where ever posted. Times & mph will never coincide with the dyno numbers so why would they display them as they will be fully exposed.

That’s why after 12 years the S4 hasn’t made any real improvements but what has made real improvements are the pockets from shops who push failed products by using there dyno##, propaganda, mouse and key boards to sell product!

What happens normally is very simple, shops comes out with the miracle turbo setup and the band wagon starts getting assembled, after 2 years the wagon is normally full along with their pockets, the product finally makes it to the real public and the setups are truly exposed to facts not fiction “so no real improvement ie back to square 1 & yrs wasted”. This has been the case each & every times and has put the car in the current state. Prime example is a recent 740whp rwd car that went 12.50 @ mid 120 mph!

12 years later we have maybe 3 cars that might have performed for a minute. The S4 is so far behind other platforms it’s sick lol electronic boost controller is finally catching on here;D