Anyone familiar with Eurospec?

B6/7 S4/RS4
#1

Like the title states, anyone here familiar with Eurospec? They seem to specialize in VAG cars and they have a large dealer network that sell their products including but not limited to:
034 Motorsports, BFI, 2 Bennett, Rennen, SCI, SPP, ECS, Brahn Benner etc, there are over 30 partners domestically and roughly 8 partners internationally.

When I first started getting sh*t from my dealer about my aftermarket parts on the car during a warranty claim I was in for, I started researching a “Plan B.” Plan B was to source an entire 4.2 FSI motor (if needed since it was looking like I needed a new motor back then) and I didn’t want to spend $18K in the process if the warranty company was going to deny my claim. This led me to Eurospec after many phone calls and searching the net. After trading multiple emails and phone calls I learned of their performance division and racing history. The fellow I spoke with most often was knowledgeable and I appreciated the time he took to review all of my inquiries in depth.

When I say knowledgeable, I mean he had a lot of the cylinder block manufacturing specs and materials used committed to memory, same for the pistons, crank, connecting rods etc. He understood the benefits of the different honing and heat cycle treatments during manufacturing, the properties surrounding the various materials used and why there were chosen to work together, admitted extracting more efficiency from the stock design was not easy at all and gave mucho accolades to Audi/GMBH for their product development. All explained and described in laymen terms.

Long story short they confirmed that one of my “wish list” items for the RS4 4.2 was not only possible, they already have produced a few for various customers.
I always wanted to know what the possibilities were to stroke this engine and everyone on the forums always told me – impossible for this reason or that reason. Well these folks, allegedly, have done it and had success in doing so.

Here are the specs:
Stock 4.2L BNS: (According to study guide)
Bore = 84.5MM
Stroke = 92.8MM

Eurospec 4.4L BNS: (According to Eurospec)
Bore = 85.5MM
Stroke = 96.00 mm
Iron sleeves. <-- Found this part interesting.

I forgot what they quoted me for this work but I’ll contact them and get numbers. One very telling aspect of the conversation for me was he said…and I quote “don’t rely on pre & post dyno numbers, take your car to a ¼ track. Get 10 runs in then go back to that track as soon as possible once we’re done with your car and do 10 more runs. Then come back and pat me on the back.” I got a kick out of that.

They also claim to have success with some minor headwork they’ve done in the past. They quoted $800 for this work.

I don’t know enough about this company to comment in either direction other than I was impressed with their customer service. What would be great is if someone here does have firsthand experience with them and can share their opinions.

These two performance upgrades alone could potentially be huge, I just don’t know how real any of it is and I’m surprised I’ve never heard of them or read about them on any of the forums.

Link to their site:
http://www.eurospecsport.com/index.htm

#2

They have some very interesting products, I will remember them if I ever decided to anything with my spare block.

I hope someone has dealt with them, seems strange that this company has not been mentioned before especially if they have stroked a 4.2.

#3

the iron sleeves is interesting, typically they are 2mm… wall spacing is 5.5mm factory, with the 85.5mm bore it’d be a half mm off of each side of the wall, so only 4.5mm… with a 2mm sleeve on each side you’d have a 0.5mm sliver of the original block webbing left

stainless steel sleeves can be much thinner

more power to them if they can do this
-see if they can get pictures of a block with a caliper in the bore
-ask them who is making the crank for them
-ask them if they played with the wrist pin location/rod length at all

personally I’d rather sleeve it down to a 4.0 and run the blower full bore

#4

Weird claim to sleeve and INCREASE displacement. That makes me think they haven’t done it…or they’re explaining it wrong

Maybe they meant bore was increased without the sleeves…with an option to add them (which would cut into displacement, rather than increasing it). Also not sure about the stroke change…sounds like they’d have to have done a full engine build.

Speaking of the quarter mile…what were the results they had when they did this? Or their customer. Who is tuning the engine? Bumping displacement a little isn’t going to change things enough to get him a big pat on the back, so it’s odd that he’d be this cocky. What are we looking at…bumping 20 tq at the crank maybe and about 30hp at the peak. So you’re going to run 12.9 stock and 12.7 modded. Just guessing but it seems real weird.

#5

Beemercer - all valid points. I plan to put together an email with questions and will include yours. I’m not sure if they reduced the piston height, shortened the rods or changed the crank completely to a new stroked design or what.

Saki - no info on the 1/4 mile from them yet. I will ask in the same email what their past experience is or customers’ experiences were with 1/4 times.

As far as displacement - I’m guessing but I’m pretty certain they didn’t do any boring to increase displacement but did it through the stroker kit process. By increasing the piston travel (moves further up and down in the cylinder) you’re increasing displacement. My understanding is that the RS4’s piston speed is already crazy fast for a production car and now if stroked it would have to cover a larger distance in the same amount of time. Not sure if our motors are built for that.

Maybe some of the smarter members here can chime in with piston speeds and the pros/cons of this performance mod.

Since our cars lack the down low tq imo this performance mod usually helps with that in a big way. I don’t spend all day driving around at high RPMs so I’m not worried about how stroker kits can sometimes effect the upper RPM range performance wise. There’s a ton of variables that come into play that I don’t know enough about to comment on.

I know the e60 M5 Dinan stroker kit made a tremendous difference in the cars performance. Just search youtube for stock m5 vs. stroked m5. In the domestic world the difference is even more nuts. Especially when working with large dispacement motors to begin with.

All fun stuff - I’m just hoping this could one day be a reliable reality for our cars.

#6

well they quoted a 1mm overbore from stock 84.5mm to 85.5mm

any stroker needs a new crank and almost always a shorter rod so you dont stuff the psiton through the head… stroke is a function of the length of the crank throws so it’d have to be a new crank

issues with stroking are wall wearing and piston melting, if you go with a shorter rod the angle that rod is facing at relative to the walls when the crank is at 90* and 270* degrees for that crank throw becomes more extreme

if you make a shorter piston, then you loose some crown between the compression ring and the edge of the piston… audi n/a motors have enough trouble with this on a stock design

another issue with changing the rod length/piston speed is it can change how the motor wants to breathe and where it makes power… I’m trying to remember rod ratio stuff, iirc linger rod, slower piston movement, more dwell at the top of the stroke, more low end… shorter, less dwell, better breathing up top, less torque

I’d be worried about the wall wearing personally

hopefully they can get you more info, this is very intriguing despite my apparent skepticism I’d love to see this done and running

#7

Agreed on all points Lout Jnr.

#8

They did quote a larger bore size, my bad.

What I should have said regarding the crank was; are they modifying the OEM one or sourcing an entire new crank from somewhere or building a new one internally etc. I do understand the need for a modified crank when implementing a stroker kit.

I knew about the potential piston woes but thought you could help offset the more extreme angle with bearing and pin locations?

I did not know that Audi has issues with this design for the N/A motors, interesting stuff. Did your brother tell you about this - if not can you share where you found this out? I’d ike to read more about it.

When I was having my old track bike’s motor built the builder had a cool reference chart with different ratios and how it would affect different motor configurations. I wish I could get my hands on it, it had a bunch of useful information on there. Mainly for inline 4’s and v-twins but at least you could get an idea of how it might translate to other engines.

Me too - you would assume if they had this niche ability with this motor they’d want everyone with this motor to know about it. Maybe it’s only for race applications? I’ll add this inquiry to the email as well, been a little busy preparing for the Holidays but I will send the email off early next week.

Thanks for all of the info.

#9

I went on their website…and in the ‘Contact Us’ section there’s no phone number and no address. Just an email. That’s a bit odd. That’s what people do when they run a mail order catalogue drop-ship business out of their mom’s basement. Not when they build motors.

They have lots of photos of a giant warehouse, but don’t say where it actually is. Most of the photos are from 1990-2000 but nothing looks recent. There was also an old thread I dug up where they were making pistons for a PES customer but couldn’t do it and PES went to someone else. That doesn’t sound like the kind of guys who can bore/stroke/sleeve a BNS engine. No chance.

If I were to make a prediction, the prediction is that they have lots of plans and ideas, but have done none of it. Instead they fab basic stuff. I will personally shit a pony if they have bored/stroked/sleeved an RS4 engine.

#10

^ you could be correct…I just started some digging.

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2588197
BTW - that 408 number is the number that I used a year ago. I think I have their address too…I’ll check a little later.

So far, the little I have found on the web doesn’t look promising for them lol.

#11

also correct me if i"m wrong

Here are the specs:
Stock 4.2L BNS: (According to study guide)
Bore = 84.5MM
Stroke = 92.8MM
This equals 4.165 L displacement

Eurospec 4.4L BNS: (According to Eurospec)
Bore = 85.5MM
Stroke = 96.00 mm
Iron sleeves. <-- Found this part interesting.
If the iron sleeves are 2mm, effective bore is 83.5…
This equals 4.20 litres of displacment

???

Even if we pretend it’s not sleeved, and instead it’s just overbored 1mm to 85.5 with 96 mm stroke
This equals 4.41 litres of displacment

Is this really going to be worth it? New crank, rods, maybe pistons, tuning…crazy labour…and 4.5 mm walls housing pistons moving at over 5000 feet per minute?

I smell a $10,000 engine build for an 0.25L bump in displacement from a company none of us have ever heard of.

#12

Eurospec has been around for a long time. Of that time not all or much of it good. Check the B5 guy on AZ and AW. Back in the day when the B5 guys were popping motors (both the 1.8T and 2.7T) almost all of them tryed Eurospec.

From what I can gather. Back in the day they had a race team with the old 4valve motors. They somehow got hocked up with the local audi warehouse.

Sidenote:for those that don’t know. Audi/VW once a year dump there ware house. They have all kinds of great stuff that is dirt cheap. Audi parts resellers say like ECS would buy parts from the sales and then turn around and resell the parts to the public for a large profit.

Ok back to our story. Eurospec back in the day bought tons of 1.8T and 2.7T motors from the warehouse sale. They turned around and made a large profit from this. When they sold the OEM motors to people everyone was happy. When they ran out of motors they had to figgure something out. When they tryed to figgure something out thats when everything went real bad. Apparently it continues to go bad for them.

There workmanship isn’t all that good and it turns out that they experiment on customers motors. To be honest. They probably don’t have sleeving right now BUT there willing to try it on your dime. That seems to have been how they worked in the past.

If your dumping your car and need a good throw away motor. They might be a good goto spot. From the guys I know that used them as of just a few years ago. I haven’t heard of 1 of there motors making it past 200miles.

Not sure how there in business still, but like pes if your nice enough and people need to believe it enough you can sell people just about anything I gues

#13

Wow they have such a legit looking website. I think there are a couple guys on AZ that bought new BHF long blocks from them.

#14

iirc they also make a main cap girdle for the 2.7Ts that needs quite a bit of block modification to fit properly, lots of them for sale in the classifieds

#15

Well that takes care of that! lol.

Thanks for the info CV, now hopefully we can help prevent anyone else looking to possibly do business with them from potentially being ripped off.

Glad I brought this topic up, anyone else could have easily stumbled upon them like I did. The fact that the guy there knows a bit about the OEM manufacturing process and has some sort of performance acumen could easily prove to be a dangerous recipe for those not in the know regarding their failure of a past.

#16

eurospec is screwy as fuck, dont even bother. from my experience with them from the vw scene, i wouldnt trust that 4.4 liter block as far as i could throw it

#17

true…but so do you and I…and can you imagine if we did a motor build lol

#18

lol - i hear ya.