APR or GIAC

B8 S4
#1

I will be going directly to stage 2, I have local dealers for both AWE/GIAC and APR. I have bought GIAC in the past and was not particularly happy with the customer service, I have purchased cars running APR tunes in the past but never direct from the APR dealer

The price of either is close, a couple hundred more for the APR, of course both dealers claim that they have the fastest tuned cars. I have no 1/4mi close by, so street tune is the most important for me, as well as a good strong, reliable car.

I welcome everyone’s opinion, let me know what you are running and how you like it

Thanks

#2

APR has treated me very well. On my CPS (supercharger intercooler), I’ve had the coolant line cap crack and break twice and they’ve been awesome about responding and overnighting me parts at no cost.

I don’t have any experience with AWE (who you’d get your hardware from with GIAC), but a few times in the past couple of years, I’ve read stories about GIAC responding to things gone wrong and their reactions to the situations always made me feel good about my APR purchase.

Also, APR seems to have the fastest quarter mile times, so I think that speaks loudly about the ECU tunes.

My local dealer badmouthed GIAC based on things they did on the B5 platform as well. I’m just passing along hearsay, but they said that’s why they stopped offering GIAC. They’ve always been an APR dealer.

Disclaimer: If anyone wants to argue with me, just know that I’m offering my opinion and not claiming it to be fact or truth and I’ll likely not spend the effort to argue back.

-Skid

#3

LOL that’s pretty funny.

#4

Thanks Skid, I appreciate and welcome all opinions, that is the sole purpose of this thread. Just a note, I am not so much interested in stage 1 opinions as that is not my intention, and it seems to have been covered quite in depth on audizoo

#5

Both have done well, results wise

Both have done it the right way, buying B8 S4s, testing everything etc.

Both have done so respecting the fact that these are $50,000 cars so they’re playing safe, and keeping it sophisticated

Basically competency wise, it’s pretty much a toss up but APR definitely has an edge. Just look at the leaderboard.

The real determinant is what your future plans are. Staying at stage 2 and as I said it’s almost a coin toss. Going beyond stage 2, at this point it seems the only route of the 2 that will be supported (potentially) is APR. But how much of a ‘credit’ being APR S2 will be when you go APR S3 is still up in the air. Potentially zero.

So there you have it. No real advice other than assurance they’re both awesome

#6

Saki pretty much covered it all. I’ve had the GIAC stage 2 on my car with zero issues and have been completely happy with it. I don’t have any seat time in an APR car, but from everything I’ve read they are on par for reliability and as fast if not a touch faster. You will be happy with either one IMO.

#7

EYEspI, Saki summed it up pretty well to be honest… I also agree with Skid but I am kind of bias since I run APR on my S4 and TTRS and also ran their tune on my B5… They have been good to me and have responded well to issues… The folks I know/talk to on forums that run GIAC have almost nothing but good things to say about them…

As for APR, I had an issue with my first flash taking and they covered all the extra costs and then some to correct it… I also had an issue with the pulley software and they worked with me via phone and email over a holiday weekend to diagnose and start working on the problem… Got the fix a few days later and again they covered the costs… They also had some issues with their TTRS tune but worked with several forum members and created a nice fix and put some additional work into the tune… I got my TTRS late in the model run so the tune I got from day one has been solid with zero issues…

I have also been lucky to beta test some of their tunes and helped identify some issues that they corrected for me via me sending logs and them tweaking the tune… Basically what GIAC is doing now a few years later with Pete and Jeff on their bypass issue. I don’t mind dealing with things like the above mentioned when I know the company will stand behind their product and wants to work with me to make the product better… Now I also think I have helped sell a few tunes via my drag racing posts and such so I think it’s fair return for both sides…

As for overall performance I think the results speak well for both teams, with APR having the advantage but some of that has to do with how long the tune has been out and sample size… With GIAC fixing their bypass issue I have no doubt things will be even closer… Not sure you saw my races with Jones2012S4, see below… Good example of tune stage II+ cars… Watch his vid as well and see me pull away ;D 

http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=2164.0

So again, I think your fine with either tune especially if you don’t plan to go past a pulley/tune and other bolt ons, IE no blower swap… For me I can’t get the new blower soon enough, well by April works… lol Let me know if you have any specific questions and I’ll be glad to try and help…

#8

Apr has the tip of the hand. Also the thing I like is that arin from apr is on here and is very c9mmited to support tue b8 s4 guys…awe is on here and has posted but they dont seem to take advantage of the less cluttered AR.

Sakimano has a great point. Future development…while giac is doing very well apr is still very much needing to stay close to the b8 s4 due to the work on the stage 3 cars…what really is keeping giac or awe in the market… they have already made there tunes…I think knowing apr is still working on new products and hearing apr is still loading new files onto primetimes ecu tells me they are very into the b8 s4…I can’t say I know or here giac doing the same

#9

Great responses, thanks guys. Honestly I have been leaning towards APR at this point

Now just to make things a little more complicated, I am also considering a local company that tunes on the dyno. They have a really good reputation and tune for power and safety. Again cost of tune+pulley would be on par with the others. They tuned a local S4 (Calgary, 3700ft) with APR catback to 378awhp

Here is a link to their website, and yes they have a physical address and their own dyno. I’m open to all opinions and value all input

http://www.ecuprogram.com/

#10

I’d stick with APR or GIAC. Custom tunes for Audis have proven themselves unnecessary. My personal choice would be APR - pure preference. I’d nerd out big time with the app lol

#11

Fair enough, my only thought with regards to custom is the ability to tune for a higher than normal altitude. Regardless I will be buying the APR pulley, it is i stock locally

#12

Maybe Arin can confirm but I think APR did some testing on the highveld in South Africa. Or at least have customers there so they have some experience with high altitude tunes.

#13

Umm regardless?

If your buying the APR pulley “regardless”, your getting the APR tune. Unless you have some crazy Frankenstein plan.

#14

No not necessarily, one local shop supports apr the other giac awe. The shop that carries apr has the pulley in stock, the awe pulley has to be ordered. I can buy the pulley separate from the tune as I currently have no tune, I don’t qualify for automatic upgraded software, this leaves me to choose either apr giac or custom as my tune options. I have verified this with both local dealers, ultimately they don’t care how my car got a pulley on it, they will install whatever tune I request

#15

Hmm. I guess the question is . . . if you buy the APR pulley, what reason would you have for not buying the APR tune? E.g., you’re not planning on matching the APR pulley with the GIAC tune, right?

#16

You said “regardless” you are buying the APR pulley, what does a shop supporting more than one company have to do with anything?

My point is what clochner described in more detail.

#17

Ryan, If you are going to go the custom tune route but the pulley somewhere else much cheaper and get a smaller one ;D I wasn’t aware of APR selling w/o the tune so to say… As for custom tuning unless said individual has some good experience with the car and ecu I would be cautious… APR and GIAC are proven and have spent tons of time on the tune and are always looking to improve… Just my .02 If I was going custom I would drive to AL and pay an hourly rate to APR and have them tune that way…

#18

I think he is saying that

  1. the two pulleys aren’t different enough to warrant concern about mixing GIAC/APR tunes and pulleys (have we seen anyone prove otherwise? or are they identical?)

  2. if he goes custom tune, he is buying an APR pulley since it’s already sitting there…i.e. regardless of whether he gets the APR tune or custom tune he is putting a smaller APR pulley on his car

As for tuning for altitude, what would that entail? It’s not like you can manage boost with the tune (not more to the upside anyway). It’s a supercharger so boost will really be determined by pulley size and then the bleedoff. You also can’t run a tiny pulley to make up for your altitude since you’re now going to be spinning the fuck out of the blower beyond what the two biggest companies were comfortable doing. I don’t think the 1320 is going to be able to handle thousands more revolutions the big guys weren’t comfortable pushing it to just because you’re at altitude. Superchargers kinda suck at altitude because you’re in the same boat as an NA car really. Can’t fight it. It’s not like a turbo that is tuned for a specific Pr and will work a bit harder to keep up at altitude. Of course that can be dangerous for a turbo too…and this is why lots of people like manual boost control on the turbo cars. on the SC car, your pulley and engine speed determine how hard the blower is working so its not as relevant. It also means though that the adaptation is gone.

#19

Great info saki and primetime , exactly the type of feedback I was looking for, and saki hit the nail on the head, I will buy the APR pulley and then decide on whether I use Apr or custom. After talking again with my local giac dealer I am not interested I paying their (shop not giac) fee for flashing and update flashing. So they aren’t going to get my business

#20

EYEspi, did that shop measure the two pulleys? We never got this discussion fully settled. I’m still believing the GIAC pulley is smaller.

How much for just the pulley?

I’ve had no problems with APR sII. I’d worry about a custom tune given all the difficulties even the big guys have had, but I’m curious as hell what his parameters would look like. At 3700 feet you’d need all you can get. What’s his tune worth?

J