APR supercharger doesn't pass readiness, do the others?

B6/7 S4/RS4
#1

So, a member on AZ recently posted they he has been apr supercharged for about a year now, went to get inspected last fall and failed readiness for failed readings for O2 sensor heating, O2 sensors, secondary air injection, and catalytic converter(s). For the last 6 months he has been going back and forth with them trying to remedy the situation updating the tune etc until recently they told him they couldn’t do anything for him and they suggest going back to stock to pass. So my question for the smarter folks here is this a problem with JHM and AMD kits as well? I would imagine a majority of the states with obd-II inspection would also fail a customer unless the regulations are different. NJ checks for these things and i never had a problem with my JHM tune on catless downpipes. Also seems odd that he has this problem in NH yet owners in The stricter CA have reported no problems (though I admit I am not familiar with their testing).

Hopefully countvohn can chime in, but is this something jhm took care up in there tuning? Seems odd that apr would not be able to come up with some way to fix this in the ecu but I’m no genius when it comes to tuning etc.

#2

Sounds like something else might be going on. However, I had heard a local guy say the same thing about APR stg3 on a gti. Granted, different platform but same general context.

Is the guy catless? Wondering if that’s the issue and APR’s tune is struggling for it to meet within an acceptable range to pass readiness , or like I said, maybe something else is going on not tune/sc related.

But to answer your other question, I was able to pass readiness tests in TN (which is an OBD scan and visual check) when I had my JHM blower and catless headers.

#3

Clarify: APR TVSr1320 RS4 kit?

Why would a supercharger influence any of those things. A supercharger slams air into the engine. It doesn’t turn off your catalytic converters. They are either there, or they aren’t. Etc. So NA or SC, if you have cat codes, you have cat problems, not SC problems. If you don’t have cat codes, but have cat readiness problems…that’s weird tuning.

O2 sensor heating - the elimination of a cat could be part of this. As could a failed or failing o2 sensor. Again, this would have a CEL wouldn’t it? I can’t see APR turning off the o2 sensor CEL codes. That is amateurish. B5 guy NMoto type stuff. Not APR , as they know what they’re doing.

02 sensors - very vague. Is it a failed o2 sensor. If so he should have a CEL and should replace the o2 sensor.

secondary air injection - not sure. Likely something in the calibration that removed SAI if asked for. Can’t see APR doing that automatically

catalytic converter(s) - maybe he has no cats or he has piggies and hasn’t addressed o2 sensor location/spacing. Where are the codes though??

#4

He makes it sound as though the only modification is the supercharger. Come on Saki, he has had it for a year, you should know its the 1320 lol.

"Tried manually to get the readiness codes, but to no avail. I was told again by APR that the readiness would not set because of the runner flap deletes. Is there a way to reconnect the runner flap motor or to trick the system into believing they are there? Again I was told by APR before I brought the kit that it does NOT “mess” with the exhaust so there would be no problem passing inspection. I am hoping there are some stage 3 owners out there with similar problems. Thanks "

"Thanks for the response. Beyond frustrated. Bought the system in May last year, told without a doubt I would pass. September 2013, it was due for inspection, and it failed due to non-readiness. APR told me to send back the ECU for a reflash and I would pass hands down. Went ahead and did so. Still did not pass, then I was told by APR I can force readiness, tried that for a fail. Then after 40+ phone calls to the their techs and over 8 months time I was told that they did not code out the runner flaps, so I would not get readiness codes unless they rewrote the program. Well, holy @#$@, I thought, why didn’t they tell me this in the first place, I would have never purchased their SC. As of two months ago they claim they are working to find a solution, but they don’t know when it will be. Worst experience with a company in my life. For the money I spent you would think they know their product. So now a have a RS4 that sits in the garage and was I forced to buy a beater to drive. I think I need a lawyer or a very good tech. So again any help out there would be awesome. "

Original thread: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/593503-APR-Stage-3-Owners-Supercharger-B7-RS4-Readiness-Codes-Help

#5

just read the thread. Yeah, it’s the old 1320 kit and the tune is just not getting it done.

Unfortunately he is probably like priority 410 for APR’s new calibration engineer.

Still, if I were him, I’d be pretty angry. They lied to him (his APR dealer) and APR either lied or gave him incompetent information. Now they’re just straight taking forever to write him a new calibration. Based on his side. I’m sure hearing APR’s side it will be a bit more balanced…I can’t think APR want high value clients starting angry threads.

Mega bummer is that he bought a supercharger kit, and has done 500 miles in 12 months…because he’s not road legal. Nightmarish. APR should buy it back from him as a gesture of good faith.

I know someone who can help him. Ironically, the same guy APR called for help on that kit 3 years ago lol.

#6

Well he has kept quiet for 6 months now, sounds like he is just tired of being jerked around. Now that its public I think he will get a little more attention. So back to the main question, sounds like a issue with the way they did the tune?

#7

JHM passes emissions just fine due to its pre-manifold contrifugal supercharger technology rather than manifold based.

Edit: centrifugal, not contrifugal lol

#8

Man…that’s a terrible fucking thread lol. Poor guy. He’s not really getting anywhere…has an RS4 that is undrivable because of software/inspection…drives an old beater instead…and has put 500 miles on his Rs4 in one year as a result.

So bottom line is that

  1. emissions testing has moved to almost strictly readiness and CEL checks (that just happened here in Ontario this year). No more sniffer, no more nothing. Just readiness and CEL check.

  2. according to APR, all APR stage 3 TVSr1320 and TVSr1740 kits WILL NOT pass readiness, thus you will not pass inspection if you’re in an obdii readiness/cel only inspection state (or province i.e. Ontario)

  3. APR can’t help him with a calibration that will address this issue

That’s pretty weird. I would love to know how they can’t do that…because I know a local JHM supercharged owner who recently passed readiness.

#9

Tough call…to be honest sounds like now that he has gone public, APR are telling him to go away. It was 2 days ago they said ‘we can’t help you’ and then Arin’s terse reponse in the thread seemed to follow that. At this point, he is hurting APR, and calling out APR. Not sure but that doesn’t seem the way to get them to help lol.

Arin keeps referencing posted emissions claims by APR that don’t exist (for liability reasons, they would never put that in writing) but it sounds like the sales side and even tech side were not in compliance with the legal side, so now they’ve got a client with a $15,000 problem. It’s unfortunate that he doesn’t have an email from APR or APR dealer, as that would certainly help his legal position.

#10

wonder if this is a little different because of the JHM kit being basically a really effective airbox, whereas the APR kits are all new intake manifolds etc. i.e. the JHM kit wouldn’t have any effect on the manifold flaps etc. because everything is left in place. The Cfuge is just the replacement airbox (a highly effective one).

If that’s the case, that would mean the JHM kit would be the preferred kit in any readiness scanning state/province.

i.e. is DannyY’s problem 100% intake flaps related, thus stopping the entire readiness cycle from proceeding? or is it deeper than that?

#11

I think this could hurt future sales of their kits, you would think they would want to get this situation taken care of before more potential customers get scared off because of it. He mentions that he has names etc to post so my guess is he definitely has emails since he also mentioned getting a lawyer. I still find it strange why he has this issues when states like NJ and PA check readiness as far as I know too. Wonder if FT has had to get inspected in the period of owning his SC yet.

So JHM will not pass readiness without the alternate tune either? Is there a reason they do not have the tune adjusted to allow you to pass inspection at all times? IE, why do you need to switch to a different file to get inspected and then switch back.

#12

No, JHM passes emissions just fine. It comes down to what choice you the buyer make in terms of exhaust and catalytic converters, not the JHM tune or supercharger. Those don’t impact emissions in any way.

#13

I would bet a coke that it was all telephone conversations.

#14

The JHM kit will 100% pass and has been passing emissions for years. Just had 2 JHM Rs4 supercharged cars pass within the past few months.

The APR kit should pass as well. The local RS4 JHM/APR project car I worked on with APR passed all readiness but that was several years ago. He might have to have the car inspected for other issues? I don’t read threads on AZ so, I apologize for not getting more up to speed.

How isn’t he passing? What is failed?

I would have him call APR and talk to them off the net. I don’t think anyone at APR is going to talk on line about emissions systems edits.

#15

Quoting the RS4 owner:

“On the VCDS I am getting incomplete or failed readings for O2 sensor heating, O2 sensors, secondary air injection, and catalytic converter(s).”

Further in the thread, he writes that his APR vendor told him that:

“there must be something wrong with my car and that the kit does not affect readiness. I asked him to test readiness on another stage 3 B7 RS4 on his lot and to his dismay it failed as well.”

#16

This is Arins last comment

"Our supercharger system doesn’t actually remove main emissions items like catalytic converters, secondary air injection pumps, evap systems, exhaust gas recirculation items, etc. However, the system does remove the tumble flaps as they are present in the factory manifold. Without the flaps, the engine will run rough at times unless it’s remapped to understand how to operate without them in place. In doing so, it’s unable to run though some of the steps necessary to complete some of the readiness tests, so they either list as failed or incomplete. Since we are not physically removing one of the emission items (SAI, Evap, cats, EGR, etc) there may be some leeway to allow the tests to run and ultimately pass or fail based purely on the results while still curing the rough running conditions. Given Danny has reported his troubles to us, we are looking into this, but we cannot possibly give a timeframe or even speculate if it’s possible at all at the moment and thus the reason we do not make any claims about emission compliance on our website. "

Seems to be a lot of conflicting information. On one hand it was believed that APR’s kit would pass emmision no problem. Now it came out that it doesn’t or they are just trying to pass the buck with all the claims that they do not gaurentee readiness. So because they deleted the runner flap, it is failing readiness for SAI, O2 etc because it can’t go through its system checks?

I wonder how many other states this would effect. Is NH that much different then the rest or does this guy have something else going on with his car.

#17

It’s very weird.

“no problem you will pass”

“no, it’s your car…everyone else is passing”

“no, it’s us…you can’t pass nor can anyone”

I don’t really understand that process, nor do I understand why a supercharger kit that is 3 years old and Danny is the first to raise the issue. What’s everyone else doing?

#18

he has called APR 30-40 times over the past 6 months and they can’t figure out a way to help him pass

#19

The test is quite standard. It looks for a pass/fail/not ready/etc in the readiness portion (in VCDS, you can click on readiness and see the different items) and whether there’s a CEL on. It’s possible that how strict the test is might change from state to state (in Ontario, you’re allowed 1 Not Ready code but if the CEL is on, it’s an automatic fail) but overall, the test is standard. I’m guessing only the criteria for passing may possibly change from state to state.

#20

Yea I actually did read that you can not have any failures. But for him it sounds like the runner code is causing everything after it to fail.

The APR kit just went from 20K for purchase and installation to

20K
+5K annual/biannual removal and re-installation to pass emissions lol