Haha it was me asking about a built motor. The question behind the questions is relating to building the 3.0 V6. Is it like the same massive hassle of building the BHF V8? Or is it more like the AAN 2.2t 5 cyl or the 4 cyl 1.8t AWP, which I understand are not such a PITA.
The 3.0s are a hybrid of the older iron blocks (1.8T and 2.7T) and the newer aluminum-silicon S4 blocks. It has iron sleeves in an aluminum housing. I doubt there is much room to bore out the sleeves.
Good question.
The problem though is drop-in rods and pistons only go so far. Don’t these 3.0s have camshaft problems? What happens when you add more power and the heads can’t handle it? Is the crank forged? I just don’t feel like there is a “balls out” type of market for the 3.0. A market for bolt-ons is great, but it doesn’t make sense for someone to build up a plain jane 3.0 A4, when an S4 is only a few grand more and it’s 10x the car, like Saki said.
Not everyone loves their car as much as A43go6mt and wants to own it for decades. I had an immaculate B7 S4, but once I took a step back, modding it further (built motor/supercharger) was only going to make me happy short term. I knew I wanted to be in an RS4 eventually because it has almost everything I want in stock form so it was time to cut my losses and move on. Add in the diminishing value of the S4s and the decision was a no brainer.
The early 3.0s had lifter issues that would damage the camshafts like my mother’s car. All the 3.0s had chappy ignition coils that would fail causing the four cats that are really close the the back of the engine to overheat/fail. Then the valve stem seals would also get too hot and fail just like on the B6/7 S4s.
Actually i would rather see the RS6-R’s on the 3.0. If the 3.0 got to 12.75 down the 1/4 i would be a happy man.
I dont think a motor build would be quite as extensive as the 4.2 S4…dont have any real facts just my thinking. The heads they will need some work, as we know sometimes the cams get wear.
The block is the same as the 2.7 except aluminum so since you can use a 2.7 stroker kit which runs just over 3k. And even go forged valves and titanium spring kit for like 1-2k i think they run. I don’t see why it would be that hard. And if you do have cam issues which I’ve already fixed on my car, All you need to resolve that is buy the kit for each head in my build thread there are part numbers for them most people don’t know about and pay way more buying individually they are 1000$ each head and come with all lifters revised cams, gaskets and everything needed. The 3.0 already has a forged crank which is what the 2.7’s use when they go with stroker kit.
I think either JHM Kit with built motor would run 12’s easy without even pushing the motor. or you could do one big turbo that 034 built for the 2.8 which I’m not sure if its been released because it should bolt up the same. I vote for JHM supercharger because I think its better to have boost all the time than waiting for a turbo to spool. Like an Evo, is only fast when boosting, when its not its slow as shit.
Hers a picture showing the belt system on 3.0, Jimmy could you elaborate in simple terms on what exactly needs to be moved for the JHM kit to work…
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z457/A4QuattroV6/XSxvhFW_zps6dfea930.jpg
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z457/A4QuattroV6/IMG_0786_zps0cd9105a.jpg
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z457/A4QuattroV6/picture3.jpg
If that’s a 3.0 I must be drunk. Also did you ever do any work on your b6 3.0 if that’s what you have? Is this really a picture of a 3.0, or did I make a mistake and put my wrong glasses on. ALSO THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL, that the 034 2.7 single kit could work on a 3.0
FAW, pic 1 is the belt driven 3.0 V6 and pic 2 is the supercharger on the BHF V8 (maddog’s old car I believe?)
This is a fun discussion.
So, regarding supercharger fitment (Vortech), is the V6 having a timing belt a help or hindrance versus the timing chain driven V8 (with its serp belt for accessories)?
Pic 1 is not a 3.0, it has 4 coils on the one bank and there is only one cam pulley on the bank where the 3.0 has 2
http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/348065482.jpg
http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/615346431.jpg
http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/333227251.jpg
Here you can see the timing belt and just see the serp belt in the last photo
You’re right, this is a fun discussion. I was just playing around. I own a 2002 b6 a4 3.0 and was thinking that he posted that picture to see if the v8 guys would notice that it wasn’t a 3.0
my bad I grabbed the wrong link from photobucket, Its hard to see the pics cuz they are thumbnails when i’m coping the direct link for the forum. Its okay that works better anyways so you can see the changes made for the supercharger on the 4.2
Thanks Lout those are much better pictures of the 3.0 belt system than I could find anyways.
So yea, that belt is pretty big belt. I’m confused why the ac needs to be moved. and what all else needs to happen in laymans terms so that kit like the 4.2 could be made. I just always thought the B6 3.0 would be a far better car to go FI because 2.7 guys are always going stroker and single turbo so why not do it with a newer body and have lighter front end than the 4.2 so that would be better for handling, right? and any other upgrades that the B6 has from the b5 than I dont even know about but I’m sure there has to be other improvements made. For one I think the body is way better looking. I think twin turbo setup would be cool but I dont see how there room, i think it would have to be one single big tubro like I said before waiting for boost is lame, boost all the time is where its at. I think with a built 3.0 it could run a decent amount of boost without straining the motor and have no problem getting into the 12’s.
What other kind of things would need to be done to the motor? does the fuel system need to be modified? I can’t imagine the injectors are big enough? As long as the 3.0 kit from JHM is cheaper than the S4 kit then I really think people would be interested. If they did for the 3.0 what they did for the S4 and with no other mods and show what it could do I think that would gain a lot of interest. I’m sure they could beat what PES claimed of having 100hp gain if they made a kit. So imagine a 3.0 say it did have a legit 100 HP gain, thats 320 hp, thats almost S4 territory range. which runs 13’s stock right? not sure if my thinking is accurate but if it is, that sounds pretty good way to go if they price was right, I’m guessing it would be between the PES kit which was 4 and the S4 kit which is 8. So 4-8k for a car to go from 16 to 13’s sounds good, plus if you have any other of the JHM mods that would only support it even more. and maybe get into the 12’s without being built. I dunno if my hypothesis is in the right directions, what do you technical guys think?
The S4 supercharger kit won’t get cheaper for the 3.0. Everything would probably need to be upgraded, even more parts than the 4.2. Then it’s back to drivetrain stuff, an A4 is not an S4.
Your the one guy that will spend $10k on a $10k car to go almost as fast as another car you can get for $12k…lol
You throw $3000 at a B6/7 S4 and your high 12s for $15k (or a lot less), with a better interior, suspension, looks.
I keep hearing how easy it is to do this or that, but I don’t see any proof and it is never cheap to blaze the trail.
I get where you are coming from Euro and makes total sense.
Some people just love the engine, and well it makes a great noise for a 6
Do we still think that the CF blower for the S4 is the right size for the 3.0 (yes yes i know it can move a whole lot of CFM), how much power does it take to spin the blower or is that more aimed at the TVS/Roots type blowers.
Haha I totally missed that… an expectant bias, I just saw what I wanted to see.
Here are some other rides with Vortech units - I didn’t look through them all but all the ones I clicked on were V8’s. By the by can someone JHM supercharged get their ride on here lol:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/page.php?id=32004
So maybe the power adder will be turbo’s. Single RS6-R for shits and giggles? Or something more cost effective. I didn’t realise the 3.0 is so similar to the 2.7t #b5problems lol
CV said the S4 s/c was a good fit for the 3.0. It’s all speculation at this point as to whether it’s good value to do one on the 3.0 until we hear form JHM.
The thing is a decent 3.0 is only a few grand, and with an eaton m62 it’s a 13second car, as fast or faster than a stock S4 for less money and cheaper maintenance. Mathematically JHM should be able to outperform the capabilities of an m62 on that car with boltons.
I had a laugh when I read someone say you can’t make big power with only 8lbs of boost. Mind you, this was from people trying to back the TVS units that require more than 15lbs of boost. Is it me, or are there several cars running 8lbs of boost making over 600whp? http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/page.php?id=32004 education for the win.
The good news for the 3.0 guys is, JHM is working on a solution for advanced power right now. The 3.0 is such a small market, with so many roadblocks and issues to overcome. One of the issues is cost per hp gain, know that there is a program in the works right now. I can’t say much more than that.
If you had to guess;
- how much psi do you think the 3.0 could handle in it’s stock form?
- Do you know of anyone that could possibly tune the ecu for close to 10psi, If someone had a turbo bigger than a k04 bolted to a 3.0?
3)how much would that tune cost?
The blocks are different between the 2.7T and the 3.0, vastly different.
Also I think you understate some of the prices for stuff. For example, the S4 SC kit is $8.5k and in your thread you said the heads cost $1,099. I just looked up what those heads would cost me and GAP quotes $1,206 - still waiting to see what my local dealership says with my wholesale account. After adding up the prices for lifters, cams, valve stem seals, special tools to replace the valve stem seals, etc it is cheaper to buy new cylinder heads.
Sure here is a picture of that section of the car from a 1.8T car that is very similar to a S4. That green circle was already there because this was from a DIY for replacing the secondary air pump. To fit the JHM SC the secondary air pump and AC receiver drier have to go. The AC receiver drier is that grey can looking thing with lines going to it that is to the left of the circled secondary air pump.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/SAIpump_zpsc2b8bc8c.jpg
