Audi g12 compatibility - FAQ

Is there any suitable replacement for the OEM VW Audi G12? Yes there is.

G12 replacement or Audi replacement coolant other then G12 is out there. Below is more information on what and why.

First off always try to use the fully recommended coolant G12 can be found at every Audi VW dealer.
If you can’t get to a dealer what choice you do you have? Look into Pentosin coolants. They are recognized as a direct replacement for All Audis. But if not OEM or Pentosin what else.

Here are a couple suggestions that have been found to be in line with what G12 coolant seems to provide. You see lots of coolants saying that they are compatible but are they. What you will see often is them saying they meet or exceed the standards of the G12 coolant. But does that mean they will work and be ok in your car. Lots of people say no. To better understand why come coolants and mixes work and others don’t lets explain what coolant is and why getting the mix wrong can lead to damage.

All coolants have chemicals added to help in pulling heat away from the motor to (cool ie coolant) cool the motor and there are chemicals added to assure the fluid won’t freeze (antifreeze)So this is why we call it coolant or antifreeze. There are also other chemicals added to help in lubrication, corrosion inhibitors and others for buffers. There is also color added to help in recognition of leaks and to help in identification while helping give an idea on proper mixing. You can usually tell if the mix is too strong or too diluted by looking at the color consistency. As the years have moved on and the motors have become more and more complicated with higher requirements things needed to change. The older style of coolant (green stuff) had a shorter life then most people understood. Most of the time people would keep the coolant in way past its normal life. This was not only bad for the motor it was bad for some of the motor components. As the motors became more demanding the gaps between servicing the motor and the oil needed to change as well. People wanted longer distances between needing to service oil and coolant.

The way Audi solved these issues for the bigger requirement was with a different blend of chemicals using a new classification. The big requirements of the coolant come down to the classification of them and how that changes things. In comes Organic Acid Technology or OAT biased coolants for short. Organic Acid Technology = propylene glycol. The OAT name is also seen when referred to as Dex-cool. G12= Organic Acid Technology or OAT for short. Switching over to the new G12 or OAT style coolant has lots of advantages the OAT coolant has very similar corrosion protection as the older green coolant but its slower acting and is more stable resulting in it being slower acting and taking much longer to break down. This helps give it that extended life extended mile protection ability. It is made from a propylene glycol base which makes it less poisonous than the older coolant and being less toxic and poisonous it is much less harmful to the environment. Now if you spill your G12 OAT coolant you don’t have to worry about killing your neighbor’s dog. The OAT coolant is much safer for children and pets.

So the new OAT is longer lasting safer and has some added protection that older coolants didn’t. One of the things that older cars and coolant had issues with was the fact that older coolant wasn’t very helpful in preventing electrochemical degradation. electrochemical degradation or ECD is where the motion of coolant and water through your engine creates an electrical charge similar to a galvanic battery. This electrical charge degrades both rubber and metal parts in the cooling system from the inside out. ECD can be attributed as the cause of many premature coolant system failures. OAT coolants reduce the effects of ECD because the OAT coolants conduct less ECD then the older coolants.

Now that we know all that can’t we just poor any coolant into the car that says it meets all the requirements to be used in any car. There is a difference between performance requirements and chemical requirements. When you see most coolants they will say that they pass the ASTM D-3306 and ASTM D-4340 standards. What does that mean and is that all you need to know.
ASTM D-4340 = Test for new coolant. Aluminum Hot Surface Standard Test Method for Corrosion of Cast Aluminum Alloys in Engine Coolants Under Heat-Rejecting Conditions
ASTM D-3306= Automotive service interval. Standard Specification for Glycol Base Engine Coolant for Automobile and Light-Duty Service.
So these are two tests for performance but all these tests don’t say they meet the chemical requirements. Generally seeing these two tests and the OAT specification would help make for a better combination. We see OAT used more often in the name of DEX-COOL™. DEX-COOL™ came with wide panic after it was found some of the GM cars using DEX-COOL™ had head gasket issues. There was a lawsuit and reports say the over all formula has been changed and that most of the findings showed that the damage was only on cars that had constantly low coolant amounts. Where the cars were beyond the low limit for extended sections of time. Not all cars had issues either just some. Still DEX-COOL™= OAT

My list of what looks like usable coolants come from matching the requirements and looking at the MSDS that was available. Tracking down all the chemical data is hard as MSDS only show information on chemicals that appear to be hazardous. After gathering as much as I could from the MSDS I looked into cross referenced cars that also could use G12 coolants and what other coolants those cars were able to use.
The bigger issue here is in the mixing. If you want to flush out your cars coolant all the way almost any new long life so called universal coolant will work just make sure its formula contains no silicates, phosphates, borates, nitrates or amines. Using the long lasting coolant should have a good formula. We know that the main part of the Organic Acid Technology (OAT) minimizes corrosion inhibitor depletion. So other formulas doing the same should be fine.

So what can you use. The good part of this is that you can always use the G12+ and G13 fluids. The newer G13 fluids can be put in older cars (G12) but the older fluid (G12) can’t be used in the newer cars G13. So if you have access to newer coolant that can always be mixed in. So far from what I have seen these can be used and mixed with little or no issues. They can also be using 100% as a replacement for G12 and I know they can be because I use one of them as a replacement and I know several VW audi shops that have used it for mixing with peoples G12 for years with no issues.
If you find a coolant you know or think will work add it to the thread we can investigate and add it to the list if it works. Right now I have

HAVOLINE® EXTENDED LIFE ANTI-FREEZE/COOLANT DEX-COOL
STP® Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant
Zerex DEX-COOL™ Antifreeze / Coolant

***I did not write this and dont claim to have, but i think its pretty neat ***

Its From A ULTINATE Car Forum

Every week someone posts about mixing antifreeze, whats ok to run? can you mix G12 with Peak? with Dexcool? well i set up a little experiment to see what exactly happens when you do.

http://www.peakantifreeze.com/
It says right on the front page “Mix with any color antifreeze”. we shall see…

http://www.getahelmet.com/jeeps/maint/dexcool/
some dexcool info. there also happens to be a class action lawsuit against the makers. more about that here.
http://www.dexcoolsettlement.com/

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2120011.jpg

Heres how its going down. i set up two different experiments to deal with two major problems associated with coolants- the “gel” supposedly formed when mixing G12 and anything else, and the galvanic corrosion that takes place over when you put regular old Peak antifreeze in an Audi engine that has many dissimilar metals.

Experiment 1: mixing of coolants.
undecided as how to accurately test this, as gelling occurs over time in the engine when you mix coolants. it has to do with contaminant build up in the cooling system getting trapped in the mixture, and also the heating/cooling cycle and getting pumped thru the radiator and water pump over and over. unfortunately i sold my little 12v D5 pump a few months ago, which would be perfect to circulate the experimental fluid.

i may update this experiment in the future, but right now i have 4 cups-
1- control- 100% G12
2- 50% G12 + 50% Peak
3- 50% G12 + 50% Dexcool
4- 50% Peak + 50% Dexcool

in each of those, i added 50% by volume of distilled water (1 part antifreeze mix to 1 part water)
no real changes have been observed in regards to gelling or changing consistency. when i think of a good way to test viscosity il update this section later.

(its the back row of 4 cups in this picture)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2120015.jpg

Experiment 2: Galvanic corrosion

Ok so this is a tough one to do on a timely basis. Galvanic corrosion occurs with two dissimilar metals, an electrolytic liquid, and an electric current.

Over time coolant breaks down in an engine and forms substances that act as electrolytes. Couple that with the many different metals our engines are made out of (aluminum head, iron block, various other metals and alloys in sensors and other parts) along with fact that the entire chassis is one big negative electrode (12v ground) and you can see where galvanic corrosion comes into play.

In this test, we are looking to see the rates metals corrode in different soloutions of antifreeze. There are 6 test subjects. (all mixtures are- half 50/50 mix antifreeze + half distilled water.)

1- Control - Distilled water.
2- G12+Distilled water - 50:50
3- Peak (green stuff) + Distilled water - 50:50
4- Decool + Distilled water 50:50
5- G12 + Peak 50:50
6- G12 + Dexcool 50:50
(bottom 6 cups in the above picture, left to right)

To test this in a timely fashion, we need a stronger electric current to speed up any reaction we may see. I dont have 6 months to let the mixtures mix around in my engine. With this setup i got results almost instantly.

I used pieces of aluminum about 1.5” and pieces of mild steel (couldnt find anything around the house that was pure iron, so this will do)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2120024.jpg

Attached a copper lead wire to each

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2120025.jpg

and for the electric current. 800mA 12v DC transformer

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2120028.jpg

although it said 12v its really 16.4v but it will still work. your cars electrical system is around 14-15 volts when the alternator is running anyways so this is pretty close.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2120031.jpg

I wired them all in parallel for two reasons- because i dont have 6 identicle power supplies to put on each of them, and by doing it this way, the current will take the path of least resistance and we will get a bigger reaction from the antifreeze with the most electrolytic capabilities.

The mild steel pieces are wired on the negative side of the transformer, the aluminum is the positive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2120034.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2120032.jpg

theres about 15.5 volts sustained across all 6 cups.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2120050.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2120051.jpg

Results!:
Ok, well almost immediately there was a reaction in a few of them. here are my notes, i observed the action at 10 minuits, 1 hour, 2 hours, and il leave it going over night and do a final look in the morning.

#1- 100% water-
10 minuets - just about zero action, nothings happening
1 hour - no change
2 hours - few bubbles, not really anything still
24 hrs - still next to zero change, 100% pure water isnt a great conductor/electrolyte
@2hours

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2120057.jpg

#2- 100% G12-
10min -some bubbles on negative side.
1 hour -no change
2 hours -no change
24hrs - very little change, although there is a small amount of green buildup, probably oxidization of the copper, though its only on the part where the copper touched both the liquid and air. possibly getting oxygen from the air to oxidize the wire, not from within the liquid. note- slightly less green buildup then dexcool.
@2hours

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2120056.jpg

@24 hours

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2130022.jpg

#3- 100% peak-
10 min -rapid bubbling on steel, green buildup on aluminum
1 hour -negative side still bubbling, heavy buildup, steel has darkened
2 hours -still progressing same as before, tons of green buildup on aluminum
24 hours - massive amount of pitting in the aluminum. tons of solid buildup in the antifreeze. copper wire was disolved completely. small discoloration in the negative side. test stopped.
@2hours

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2120055.jpg

@24 hours

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2130011.jpg

#4- 100% Dexcool-
10 min -some bubbles on steel, strange milky gel forming around both electrodes
1 hour -same, some green solid forming on the positive side wire
2 hours -same as before but slightly more progression
24 hours - almost the same as the 100% G12 although slightly more green buildup on the copper wire, except below the liquid line not on the surface. il let this go another few days.
@2hours

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2120054.jpg

@24 hours

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2130023.jpg

#5- 50/50 G12+Dexcool-
10 min -some bubbling on steel
1 hour -same, not much change
2 hours -sort of milky around the negative electrode, bubbling
24 hours - roughly no change, im going to let this go another few days and see how it stacks up with the strait G12 and strait dexcool.
@2hours

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2120053.jpg

#6- 50/50 G12+Peak-
10 min -rapid bubbling at the negative side, milky haze around the steel. very heavy green buildup on positive side
1 hour -even more green deposit on the aluminum. lots of action.
2 hours -same as before plus the whole cup turned an opaque milky color. lots of green deposits on aluminum
24 hours - obviously lots of buildup although different from the 100% peak sample. the G12 definately limited the amount of solid buildup more then 50% (concentration of G12:Peak) and the way it built up was much different as you can see in the pics. the corrosion is limited to a small area, as opposed to the 100% Peak where the corrosion/solid formation just spread across the whole dish. slight discoloration (darker) on the negative side, some pitting. test stopped.
@2hours

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2120052.jpg

@24 hours

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2130015.jpg

right now it looks like G12 and Dexcool are very similar in regards to protecion from galvanic corrosion. Peak is garbage as you can see. it just about instantly started corroding. we will see what the electrodes and fluids look like after 24 or possibly 48 hours.

UPDATE DAY 2
Well its confirmed. Peak antifreeze is total crap and has no place in our engines. Although- there was a twist on the results i expected. when comparing the 100% peak to the 50/50 peak and G12, the sample with the G12 in it did a great job at stopping more then 50% of the corrosion that occured in the 100% peak dish. the corrosion was limited to the point of origin and did not spread thru out the disk as happened in the 100% peak sample.
also there was very little pitting on the aluminum in the 50/50 sample, but there was a pink solid layer that formed. i think that the G12 solidified on the metal to stop the reaction of the Peak. Below are some pics comparing those two samples.

il let the other 3+control samples run a few more days to try and get a more pronounced reaction (the two samples with Peak in them corroded so much that it short circuted the whole line to the point that it was only reading ~8v. i cut the wires on those two samples and the voltage returned to ~16v)

100% peak @ 24 hours
Frothy solid formed across the whole dish.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2130016.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2130021.jpg

after some cleaning, notice the pitting

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2130029.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2130026.jpg

50/50 G12 and Peak. notice the localized green stuff and the formation of a pink film like substance and very little pitting.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2130017.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2130018.jpg

cleaned up

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2130032.jpg

liquid turned pretty milky, but not nearly as much solids as the 100% peak.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/ghost6303/experiment/P2130027.jpg

Reserve 2

Wow, great test Justin. These home-brew tests always reveal so much about oils, filters, etc. You should re-post this on bobistheoilguy.com when you finish it.

The green autozone brand coolant is coming out of the cobra, that’s for sure. Lots of guys run dex-cool in them, claiming better corrosion resistance which appears to be true.

Yes I have seen lots of the Ford guys doing that. I have a growing list of coolants you can use in the Audi. The biggest issue is mixing and what can you mix with oem coolants. In theory you can drain all of your coolant and use any OAT or dexcool type of coolants. The big issues I wanted to originally wanted to tackle was what coolant could you use if you needed to top off your g12 coolant.

I have not been just reading about this. I actually have had a mix of the Zerex made by valvoline in mixed with G12 for well over a year

Great info here. At my shop our supplier recently switched us over to Peak to lower costs but after seeing this I think we’ll spend a few more bucks for something decent. In the past insurance companies would only give us $12-20 dollars for coolant no matter what. Now with so many vehicles requiring specific coolants we basically order OEM coolant for each job as needed and invoice it out to the insurance company. It really pisses them off when you supplement $175 on coolant like we did last week on a F350 that takes almost 7 gallons.

Excellent info Justin.

Great post! Thanks Justin!

Justin, great post. I sell auto parts… we now offer G13 coolant/pentofrost E, which supersedes G12++, G12+, and G12 coolants. G13 now has glycerin in addition to it’s glycol base. There is no claim that it’s an improved product over the G12++, just more “environmentally friendly to manufacture”
It’s difficult enough to convince people to use distilled or de-ionized water when adding coolant to their vehicles. most use tap water, which has mineral content, which not only helps conduct electricity, but it is a contaminants that will score the sealing surface of water pumps. I’ve sent in a few water pumps to gates to verify failure, which shops don’t like to hear about tap water potentially causing a come back from service performed by the shop.
Also, coolant in brand new vehicles can be considered “extended life” but after a vehicle is five years old, it’s suggested to flush coolant every two years.
I also has a customer asking me for some coolant for his Mclaren F1 race car with a Tag Porshe engine… Mclaren had used 4life coolant, so I started to research it. I contacted evans coolant, thinking it may be the same product, but evans insisted not to assume that it was. The research on Evans coolant is that it’s essentially Propylene Glycol. and as with most coolants, they are a more stable, but less thermally conductive, due to viscosity of the coolant. so the blend of ethylene or propylene glycol and water is still used.

I’m working still to get more to the bottom of the water issues. Some chemicals have been added to take into consideration water types but with so many different types the common best way would be to eliminate water as an issue and just used distilled.

do u think we could add the new prestone into this list. its a good priced 5 year coolant, I did tests similar to what you’ve don here with a bunch of coolants in school and prestone came out awesome. id love to see how the new formula pans out before I refill my car with it.

that milky residue from the dex cool was way way worse with the older formula and the older the dex cool got the more acidic it got too. my sister had a 2000 Pontiac grand prix with the 3.8 v6 in it and the dex cool had become so acidic it actually ate a hole through the intake pouring coolant into one of the cylinders.

ill see if I can dig up a pic of that intake. its good to see the dexcool has figured out the formula a bit but I still wouldn’t use it just because of the residue. it looks like shit all around the sides of your coolant tank.

I have been really hunting on the Prestone brand really looking to validate if it will work. The issue with that is prestone has been asked this in the past and they seem to dance around the answers.

Prestone answers on this very question.
Although specificlly asked they would not respond, whether
it was tested on VW engines.

[quote] If you would like to install OEM antifreeze in your vehicle your will have to purchase the antifreeze from your
dealer. However, Prestone Extended Life Antifreeze is safe to use in your VW and will offer excellent cooling system
protection. Prestone Extended Life has been proven in the laboratory to be compatible with all new extended life
formulas at concentrations typically used in all newer vehicles coming off the production line today. These automobile
manufacturers include Audi, BMW, Daewoo, Daimler Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Honda, Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Suzuki,
Toyota, Volvo, and VW.

We hope this has been helpful. If you need additional information please let us know.

Prestone
[/quote]
The same question asked again with specific wording on if it was tested on VW and audi cars

[quote] Thanks very much for your inquiry. The new Prestone Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant For All Makes All Models is
compatible with your vehicles coolant. The product can be safely added to your existing coolant or used in place of it
if desired.

Thank you.

Prestone
[/quote]
The wording is what I would be worried about. As one guy put it. You can mix all kinds of oil into your car and the oil will be compatible but that doesn’t mean it meets the requirements. Lots of coolants can be considered compatible but the question isn’t so much if it’s compatible as is it the same formula and specific chemical make as what my car needs.

I’d love to see how G13 and Motul Inugel Optimal Ultra would stack up in the above test. Justin any chance you’ll be trying those out?
I’ll be doing a coolant flush quite soon and not quite sure whether to go with a new G13 or Motul one…