B8 S4 headers bank or bust?

B8 S4
#7

[quote=“Paperybutnotplasticy,post:6,topic:4177”]
Paper, Not sure why you try to defend them so much? cognitive dissonance maybe? Weren’t you employed by EC at one time? maybe that is it… kickbacks?

Look people are free to make their own choices and spend their money as they see fit… However, in this case when headers are discussed on that other site there are seldom any facts or real world data to support the vendors claims… EC marches out their dyno results and everyone fawns over them like they are the bible… However, EC’s strip results show something different, how come? They never seem to mention that when they bring up headers, I wonder why? Then you have people like well_armed who claim results w/o any data to support it and talk down to folks who disagree with him and use bogus claims to justify their side…

Anyway, yes you are correct Imola was running just about the same times as me, on the same day, in some cases at the exact same time, and with nearly the same mods as I but about 250-300lbs lighter or nearly 6-7.5% reduction in total weight… The weight savings alone should have had him solidly in front of me and surely with the headers he should have been faster? To me this is more relevant than a dyno sheet from the vendor yet it get’s brushed under the rug on vendorzine since EC pays them and us dumb members don’t… This is the exact reason I don’t post on vendorzine as I experienced firsthand how vendor complaints are handled… They pilfered my pm’s and deleted all of them or blocked them… They threatened to ban me all because Alex from Euroscam was mad that my brother made a nicer set of paddles than his $675+shipping CF ones for about 20% of the price… Hey dickwad(Alex) maybe offer a fair price and I wouldn’t have to spend time designing these and making them for other members… See when there is competition it’s good for us and we get market based prices instead of him gouging everyone… Nothing like $2K steering wheels, eh… I pay $50K for my car but should pay 4% of that total for a steering wheel that is flat at the bottom… Really?

As for the couple of customers dyno’s and Richi’s dyno’s I don’t care! We don’t drive our cars on the dyno and they are very easily manipulated… Who the fuck is David? David from EC? Yeah he is probably more biased than you and I and I wonder why? I’m sure he would never exaggerate gains from their product… Come on man, believe it or not I’m not stupid…

So let me ask you this, why doesn’t APR run these headers? I know they had a set… wonder what happened to them? Maybe Arin can chime in on that but he and I as well as Joel and I from APR have traded many emails on said product… I’ll let the fact that they and I aren’t running them speak for itself…

#8

The headers show up on the dyno vs. stock exhaust. Great. 20 whp you say? A car length or two you say? Great.

Guess what…you’re comparing to cars with stock exhaust and stock cats. Do you have anything to compare a decatted or high flow cat to a headers car? Because guess what…the difference would be negligible.

We’ve seen lots of data on this site.

  1. dragstrip results
    primetime/imola, same day, same mods, same DSG and the headers were the only real exception. Imola pulled his seats too. He was slower ET and barely faster MPH than primetime. That’s a bad result. Then we have about 50 other times that all say the HFC cars are giving up nothing to the headers.

  2. pbox pulls - richi has been out to see Tsivas a couple of times and wasn’t really much faster than the cars with a fully stock catalytic converter in place. That’s a bad result.

You keep mentioning your lack of a dragstrip thus you only have pulls. OK let’s look at that. You’ve got ‘side by side pulls’ from

a) the guys who work at eurocode and sell the headers. So who cares. Entertaining but hardly third party and impartial. No offense to EC guys.
b) the guy (you) who used to work at eurocode, so see a) for why nobody is listening

Further, the examples you gave are headers (a.k.a. decatted) cars racing against fully catted cars.

You’ve also got Eurocode never getting out of the 12s with the headers on the car in multiple dragstrip attempts (both publicicized and not). In fact they couldn’t get out of the 13s when they first went to the strip with superstar driver Mike the B5 A4 guy.

Paperish, none of your data is really compelling. That’s why primetime is making the points he is. He ain’t ‘hatin’ (I predicted in another thread here 2 weeks ago that primetime would be called a hater by AZ types for presenting impartial data) All the fervour and boasting is based on NOTHING…resulting in other users being parted from their hard earned dollars for a pipe dream.

#9

Get some real data Paper…get to a track and make some runs…prove to everyone how fast your car is and how great some of the parts are…or aren’t

#10

You guys have lots of good posts both paper and prime. You guys should make a thread amd not keep this in here

#11

Thought I would get the ball rolling with this.

Headers are not just some random pipes going from point A to point B…not if you want a power improvement. So far jhm has posted the only real solid gain from headers on the older 4.2 S4 the results were 50wtq and 45whp the power came in over 1000rpm before peak tq and held 1000rpm after the drop off…still too many companys have failed misurbully. Super sprint made headers for the rs4 and it made a whooping nothing add the same for the 3.0 A4…nothing…just like with the performance world of gm there are lots of companys that make headers for the lsx motors but only a few that get it right…

So are the b8 s4 headers a bust…there is lots of buz let this thread sort out the facts and help stop threads like this where someone gets the headers and runs awa from heloing show if they did or didnt woek…

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/527321-My-Eurocode-Header-Install/page2

#12

Im not looking to argue anyone but the headers definitely made my car faster. The only real way I had of gauging my car was racing my friend who had the same setup including Revo and thats the best way I had of gauging the real world difference the headers made on my car. He doesnt work at Eurocode and I used to work their almost 4 years ago and haven’t received any kickbacks or anything from them. I pay less for my parts than off the street customers would but that is it. Like I said Earlier, almost every single B8 S4 is slower than primetimes S4,. Does that mean that GIAC software sucks cause GIAC cars cant beat primetimes quarter mile time? Does that mean that every intake and exhaust and every power mod out there doesnt do shit on these cars cause people with those times cant beat primetimes quarter mile time? Does that make sense? How many companies out there go and do before and after testing on the dragstrip with their exhaust systems? Does APR? Does JHM? Does that make them bad companies, or make their actual real world dyno tested power numbers fake? Does that make the videos of a race between 2 similiar cars fake?
I still dont understand where the hate comes from. Auditude’s car didnt gain anything from the 034 testpipes and circuit tested lost power with the testpipes. Why is primetime still running this crap product?

lulz on other forums (current, not classics)
#13

its still kind of up in the air. on a car with no tune they def do add a bunch of tq down low but the gain is somewhat negated by a tune. they also proved beneficial in my 60-130 runs. jury is still out tho, not enough people testing them in “proper” testing fashion tho. as soon as i can sort out my clutch ill go to the track and ill prob drag pete with me

#14

[quote=“richib86,post:13,topic:4177”]
kudos to Richi for being honest! karma bump! Exactly what we need more testing to prove out the product one way or the other…

#15

[quote=“primetime,post:7,topic:4177”]

BTW I think I might be feeling cognitive dissonance because I am extremely hungry all the time.

#16

Paper, That’s a fair reply… As for some of your questions the GIAC car(1fasts4) ran litterally the exact same time with the exact same mods when we were both stage I… Revo would probably be faster than both tunes until it blew up from running 40 degrees of timing on their race file… My car is faster than most because APR has been first to the market on many things, I spend the money to modify it, and quite honestly I go to the strip more than everyone else because I enjoy it… DSG or not there are some things that help run better times that many aren’t aware of or don’t bother with… Tire pressure, staging, keeping the car straight, etc. I still have these cats because currently there isn’t a better proven product… If EC’s headers were truly proven I would have already had them…

I plan to do the same thing with the TT-RS, not to prove anything, but again because I enjoy it… Also, my times have been beaten by a car with stock cats, albeit at a non-sanctioned track but I still give Ryan the credit for his times… Bear’s car is probably just as fast as the times and traps reflect as well and keep in mind I run race gas all the time… Finally, it’s not hate as I have the EC alukreuz and think it’s a fine product… My disdain comes from how products are pushed on vendorzine and how naive members get taken advantage of by vendors and members who buy a product and are too embarrased to admit it doesn’t work or use their SOTP feeling to validate said product…

#17

If you want quarter mile times the fastest 1/4 mile time on a manual B8 S4 is Eurocodes car with the headers running APR Version 1 software 12.138@113.97.

#18

Rich this isnt to challange your answer but do you or can you prove this claim with something even a dyno sheet will do…for me ill be honest I know dick about what headers can or cant do on the b8 s4 so far the best reports are 20whp and ill be honest thats kinda weak

We all trust in your opinion but so far all we have is feel a sprint booster feels like it adds a ton of power but we all know it adds 0

#19

Really? I thought the list of 1/4 mile times had the fastest 6MT at around a 12.4.

Edit: that time isn’t on either AZ or AR’s list. Is there a timeslip and/or vid of that pass? If accurate, that’s the fastest B8 S4 manual by far.

#20

i dont mind being challenged im in it for the knowledge too haha. i gotta dig it up but yea theres a dyno sheet of mine floating around and it was about 20hp over a similarly modded car that dynoed same day right after my pulls.
correct me if im wrong but arent the jhm cars pulling 45hp in after a proper calibration for the headers? if so that may be the difference here, no1 is tuning for cat deletes other than just killing the light on the dash

#21

I see where your coming from. I know there arnt any official quarter mile times with 2 cars at the same track on the same day. But the fastest Manual B8 S4 time was run by Eurocode on Version 1 software. But if I were to go to the track with my car it wouldnt prove anything about the headers. If I ran a great time you guys would say their are other variables and the same reason my car made so much power on the dyno is the same reason I ran those times. If I run a shitty time everyone will say the headers were the cause and wouldnt account for the fact that Ive never been to the dragstrip. Even though dynoes can be manipulated and they all vary from each other its still a more consistent way of measuring the power for a manual car like mine than my passes at a track. In my opinion a side by side race from a roll between 2 cars over and over again is the best way to gauge a mod for a particular car. You guys might disagree but that takes the least amount of skill.

#22

It was at Fontana on a hot day on a slightly uphill track.

http://www.eurotuner.com/eventcoverage/eurp_1202_2011_tuner_grand_prix/viewall.html

#23

^^ Cool. Not sure why we didn’t know about that pass. For the record, though, EC was not running with just headers and APR Stage I software. Rather:

Engine: 3.0-liter V6 with APR stage 2+ software, smaller supercharger pulley, upgraded coolant pump, coolant separation reservoir, Eurocode long-tube headers, supplemental supercharger after-cooler, Neuspeed exhaust

http://www.eurotuner.com/eventcoverage/eurp_1202_2011_tuner_grand_prix/viewall.html#ixzz2MtUs8Jxe

#24

  1. nobody said headers won’t make a car faster (than stock). So why do you keep ranting and trying to convince everyone of that? We know they add a gain over stock. Primetime just thinks it’s overstated and lauded for really adding just about zero over far simpler and more cost effective solutions.

  2. primetime has 034 high flow cats, not test pipes. He also has an APR tune, not a GIAC tune. The 034 cats work pretty well on his car (and fonzie and 81bear) and their APR tunes.

What is the hate? The only thing people on this site hate is bad products, poor marketing and bullshitters. Well, the core members. Some people have come along and dilluted that a bit.

lulz on other forums (current, not classics)
#25

They also ditched the Neuspeed exhaust for a dump tube or ‘torque tube’ as the article called it.

#26

I think putting tye dyno sheet would help shlw more of paper proof. If yiu have it cool post it…

As for jhm…I dont know the car was on 91oct and I think he already had the tune for the base line test so 8t potentially added even more then that over stock