I dont get coached or desperate, its just criminal how your trying to sell 2 pipes for $1000 to people with $30k cars and a bullshit catback for almost 2 grand on a car where you actually have to drop the engine to install, unlike the lies you spread about the price and installation process of the Eurocode headers. Again Bipolar much?
umm… I never mentioned jhms dyno numbers here? Also jhm doesn’t post dyno numbers so howd you come up with that one lol. You’re beyond desperate.
I don’t quite get the bipolar references. Is that all you two have left? Get your own spine make paper. Stop using jspazz material. He called me bipolar a month ago because I made fun of him for having his brother fight his battles. Now that’s your go to? lol
Paper - you need to check your emotions at the door and review what’s actually being discussed. Saki summed it up pretty well:
1. Headers vs stock = nice gain at big cost
2. 034 hfc vs stock = nice gain at medium to low cost
3. 034 test vs stock = nice gain at low cost
4. Headers vs 034 = nominal to no gains at big cost
Where are you getting this “hating on the headers” discussion? The question is whether the far pricier headers make any gains over 034 hfc or test pipes. THAT’S the issue. Everything else you’ve been discussing is off mark. Sheesh . . .
I was beginning to think I was in the twilight zine. That’s not a typo.
I dont know what you are talking about, I dont know Jspazz and me and him dont communicate off the forums, so unless you can find somewhere where he told me what to do and pulled my strings this is just another one of your lies. You posted about JHM’s fake bullshit dyno numbers in the other thread before you deleted it so dont act like you dont know what the fuck Im talking about. I like how you seem to edit your posts and modify shit to hide the bipolar shit you post. you were comparing numbers between Eurocodes advertised header gains and JHM’s header gains, that makes you bipolar since you have been telling me for months dynos dont mean shit.
I’ve exposed your lies in previous threads months ago and those threads just died down once the truth came out. Now I’m going to expose the bullshit JHM is trying to pull with their exhaust and their tunes on here and Audizine, how about that? I’ll act like Saki for a while and stick my nose where it doesnt belong when I obviously dont own one of those Archaic Audi’s.
Big boy? I think thats your cue to leave. Saki is the heart and soul of this forum. You post no knowledge and your credit card and stupid color car are the only reasons your car has any relevance to the forum. You think because of your supposed pulls with phantom cars and a pull with another b8 that there is enough data to proclaim these headers as a proven mod? Go to the track or do some pulls with other members cars and post them up, then we can make a judgement from that.
All you know how to do is regurgitate info ec tells you, other than that you have no experience with modifying cars. Only your credit card does. Go run and tell on us to your ec boys. Hoping to gain some kind of ammo against the real big boys. Only thing big is your jerry curl hair and bushy eyebrows
Sorry, where did I delete anything??? I made that comparison here you moron
http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=1569.msg38962#msg38962
Where have I ever lied?
Go gather some proof and make a call out thread in the war room. This should be interesting.
Ok so if you mentioned it in this thread why do you say you havnt mentioned JHM dyno numbers a few posts up? Again flip flopping. Also I dont want to start a call out thread, I’m not you I dont start vendetta’s with people and call them out and stick my nose where it doesnt belong. You fuck with all the B5 guys, you fuck with the B8 guys, both cars you don’t own.
Didn’t you just say earlier, though, something about how you like to come on these forums and argue with people? You’re all over the map Paper.
BTW Eurocode has never told me to post anything about anything ever. I text and talk with David maybe once or twice a month and I see him once every 4-6 weeks at the most. Also Im glad you like my Jerry curl, even though I wouldn’t necessarily call it a jerry curl. Bitches love it though.
the bitches love your hair? queue jacx29 meme
Ya I enjoy the back and forth that we have, but Im not going to go dig up old posts, make lists and timelines and call someone out. But when there is an actual topic of discussion and it gets really heated, that’s what brings me pleasure.
Well they like it all, but the hair really gets em.
lol because you brought them up, not me. You’re losing it man.
Focys.
exactly. ADD at its best.
If you want a good laugh about how he doesn’t carry vendettas go check out the jhm rs4 exhaust group buy thread in the b6/7 section. Prepare for lulz to be had.
Paper just argues incoherently…which I’m sure he doesn’t even know what that means. He doesn’t ever talk about anything factual…just calls us names or haters…and talks about my B6, which I don’t have…it’s a B7 all the time.
But this quote from paper it the best…[quote]You posted about JHM’s fake bullshit dyno numbers
[/quote]
the fake bullshit dyno # king calling out other dyno numbers…hhahaha piece of work man
the fake bullshit dyno # king calling out other dyno numbers…hhahaha piece of work man
[/quote]
Haha that was awesome, that made my day thank you man.
So, if your on a crusade to take up a conversation on a product that many people have seen tested and works (the 2.75" exhaust) from companies like MTM JHM Etc due to not being able to hold good water on this debate, maybe you need to take a step back.
JHM has tested the exhaust and the tune, in stages and we all know what its able to do and what it does. Also, the exhaust wasn’t make just for a stock car. The exhaust was made for a One size fits all. So, when you put on the JHM supercharger and get over 550whp from the stage 3 you have more then enough exhaust to cover your power curve.
With that said, let me look to try and help your position in this thread. I’ve designed and built the JHM headers for the 4.2 A6,S4 and S5 I also designed the headers for the ram style B5 GT car that did quite well on the dyno and at the track. If you include my work for SVT the list gets much much longer.
Let me start with this disclaimer: This post is reduced to the best read, while I can fill this post with numbers and calculations to show an over explanation of points, I will just make this a one for all post. I often see people thinking adding tons of numbers and figures make them look smarter, when in fact a good posts helps people at all levels of understanding.
Let’s start:
Building headers vs manifolds for NA (natural aspirated) motors is almost always going to yield a big gain (see the M series cars and the RS4) A properly built header will pull more air in the motor then the piston void will on its own. So, in some cases the exhaust is actually working to do more of the intake work then the motor itself
Why is this?
The NA motor has a VE (Volumetric efficiency; ability to make power, bring in air) that is biased off the size of the motor and the supporting components (heads, cams, compression etc) Adding a better flow collection and path after the heads will help the VE of most all NA motors.
Newer variable camshaft, high compression, multi stage intake motors of today can have a VE of close to 90 with some of the motors like the RS4 getting close to 100. Older motors are more in the range of 75-80, some even lower. About the best you’re going to be able to get a VE on a NA motor to is in the 120 range. This is more race motor stuff with no corners taken or compromises to components for power.
Boost it for better VE
When you add a supercharger, turbo Etc. you’re doing so to rise the VE of the motor. Adding a turbo, supercharger is generally called FI (forced induction) When you add the FI to a motor (you have to do it right putting on too big of a turbo or too big of a Supercharger can actually bring down the VE in most of the range) You’re doing so to rise the VE of the motor. Most FI apps are going to put the car into the 150 VE range. Well above that of the NA cars with equal range no FI
Boost and Headers for better VE?
Well generally, no. This isn’t to say you’re not going to get a better VE out of headers on a FI car. Turbo cars generally do better in this case due to the fact that Superchargers are much generally a better VE raising component then turbos.
Due to fact that the Supercharger adds so much more VE to the motor the addition of headers at the power levels you guys are at might be hard to see.
The supercharger well exceeds the workings of the headers to pull the air out of the cylinders, as the exhaust pulse is now under great pressure, thus pushing itself out of the motor and into the exhaust.
So I don’t need better exhaust due to the pressure right?
No, at the increased power levels you guys are seeing you are always going to see a gain (depending on the OEM unit) The issue here is that, the further the exhaust restriction is from the heads the bigger the detriment to the exhaust and power gain will be. This is why the catback is generally helpful, the pressure drops as the exhaust gets further away from the heads. So, the pulling component of the exhaust gets more important as you move further away.
As you make more and more power, you can over whelm the entire system, thus needing a bigger system. Having a superchargers help in pushing out the exhaust is just going to take longer now till the flow coming through the manifolds is exceeded and the manifolds are not longer efficient for the amount of flow.
So, then the headers are a waste of time on my B8 S4?
NO. The issue here is the supercharger is making such a big difference the headers are getting over shadowed. Are you going to see much gain from headers at this power level? Yes, but your also seeing some gains close to that with no cats. With stage 3 for the B8 close at hand you will see the headers potentially play a much bigger roll that could almost make them a needed part for big power.
So what about now?
The bigger power gains are when you’re not just at WOT but when the blower is not as active. Throttle response, on and off power transitions. Race someone off a roll without headers. Chances are you’re going to put a hurting on them. You can’t see that on a dyno and you are not going to see that as much at the track.
The dyno is an empty tool for some real world driving power gain results. The dyno shows WOT. WOT is something that you’re not in 99% of the time.
What did all that even mean?
Headers work, do they out shine the catless Dps at this stage? maybe not enough to WOW you or to make it so much as a clear choice. The headers work WELL beyond the WOT range. At this stage the WOT measure looks like too close for some to call. As the power goes up so with the CFM and need for flow from the heads to the exhaust. I know the B6 4.2 stock manifolds do ok till about 350whp then they start to get every iinefficientficient. Obviously being NA headers make a huge impact that can be seen very easy. Here with the Supercharger the gains are going to definitely be there its just where are they going to shine more.
Summing it all up
When I build headers for SVT or JHM. I find a window of RPM that I want to see peak performance. You “tune” the headers and add changes that most people can’t even see. EC would know the range of when they built their headers and where they built them for best flow. Not every set of headers will work. You need to know what you’re doing. Euro Code has shown they clearly know what their doing. They would have more information then I can add to support what they did.
One of the big issues are going to be full exhaust and enough flow to need the headers. Adding the B8 headers to a too small exhaust is a waste of headers and just causes more issues then it solves. (I know fuck all about the B8 exhaust selection so I don’t know what’s out there) You’re adding a serious piece of exhaust in headers. If the rest of the system isn’t about to support the gains of the headers then you don’t have much of a gain from the headers.
Conclusion
It’s Saturday, I have guests over and kids playing (sorry for the wait Derrik Im on my way down) when I write an article for hotrod MMFF or any publication I get l3 weeks and I have an editor look it over. I did this in an hour so sorry its not the witticism response but best I could do. This isn’t meant to be a be all. It’s simply just something to hopefully help add to the conversation. The cost associated with the headers and any gains are going to be something each person is going to have to decide if that’s enough up for their dollar.
Sorry had to quote the orignal post as I can’t remember what the original topic was…
“Bank or Bust”, well I think it’s all subjective as to what is important to you… If performance at a stage 2+ level is what you’re after, in my opinion, the headers aren’t worth the extra Quan over the 034 HFC and definitely not over the testpipes. I reached this assessment through the provided data (PT, Richi, Fonzie, Imola, and my own experience) and yes we can argue actuall cost vs. advertised cost but at the end of the day it works both ways (both EC and 034 can sell at discounts) and not all potential customers are offered the same level of discount, if at all, so to be fair I focused on the advertised price.
Now the more interesting question to me is one that J brought up regarding the b3n3fits of the headers over the HFC/testpipes on a stage 3 application…
Lol Bear. Thanks for noticing my post…I was worried we were never coming back there.