B8 S4 headers bank or bust?

B8 S4
#81

Paper, In post #11 you say aren’t looking to argue with anyone but then in post #77 you say that you get pleasure arguing with people, so which is it… Are you a troll that just wants to start arguments with no facts to support your case or an enthusiast that is here to learn and share experiences…

Also, please keep your racist comments off the board and don’t call me or others deragotory names… That certainly shows your youth and lack of maturity…

In case you haven’t noticed I don’t give a shit what David from EC thinks of me… Again, they just tout their dyno #'s and never mention the debacle of 1/4 mile times that they got with a pro driver… They choose to post the BS 120 trap vs their best time… that alone tells me all they care about is selling parts and nothing more…

Until you address my points I will quit responding to your ramblings and BS…

J, Interesting chart… here is the part I find most intersting… Fonzie trapped higher than Richi in both the 1/8th and 1/4, with less mods, in a worse DA, and with test pipes not headers… To me that is much more telling than the delta between 1/8 mph and 1/4…

#82

Jspazz, I don’t understand how this is relevant? EC isn’t going to discount the headers for everyone, so some people are paying premium. Still even if they knock off $500, is it worth the un proven gains that they make just because you got a discount?

I also agree that it is a nice chart, but I think Primetime makes an even better point. Who really cares about the delta between the 1/8 and 1/4mph if other cars with less mods are faster. Regardless of how much a header car picks up from the 1/8 to 1/4 it shows that a non header car has proven to be faster.

This is kind of turning into a B5 argument where company A sucks at tuning a car for the 1/4mile, but members love them for 60-130 times and skreet racing…like paper. I’m sure it’s possible that the headers move the B8s power band causing it to be a little slower down low, but it may pull harder in higher speeds, which is what a guy like paper loves.

In reality though we know most people don’t drive around doing 60-130 pulls often on the skreets and when paper meets a car without headers and highflow cats or test pipes at a stop light from a dig…or any other of the header owners, they will probably be dead even or get pulled on. Then they will either question their purchase or argue that if the race was from a roll (60-130) they would have walked the other car.

#83

Again you always seem to make stupid baseless comments with nothing to support them. I have raced cars with the same mods as me and without headers and I put car lengths on them. I also posted videos of me putting car lengths on cars without headers. This isn’t your B6 headers actually make a huge difference on these cars.

#84

I never called you names, I wasn’t talking about you. BTW I have posted lots of data supporting the power gains the headers provide for these cars. All you guys use is the used fully modded car Imola bought off someone else that he didn’t mod himself and probably has no idea on the running condition of his car.

#85

Prime, I agree to a certain extent as I’ve said, up until this point the headers haven’t shown gains over the HFCs or test pipes at the track, but I didn’t want people to miss this interesting piece of information. Unfortunately the 1/4 spreadsheet isn’t including 1/8 information for everybody and the person in charge of it keeps saying don’t bother, it’s not worth looking at, but i think that’s a little-self serving to his argument, to say the least. I’d agree Fonzie’s trap was amazing, best so far on pump, and if you have seen the video of his run, it’s even more amazing since his car short-shifted 3-4 by a huge margin (4000 rpm in 4th?). But seeing Rich catch up to within 0.7 mph of the same trap speed as Fonzie, after being 3 mph down, is frankly ridiculous.

And that’s why I haven’t written the headers off, since asides from Imola’s run with you prime, the headers haven’t been given a fair shake. And it would be interesting, as you say, to see what a guy with 1000s of passes could do in Imola’s car, you know, as someone put it here, an automatic that any idiot could drive (sigh). So we’ll wait for Paper, and maybe still, someone else with DSG to eventually come forward and see what else they can do. Yeah, the waiting for people to hit a track is kinda boring especially when they didn’t have a winter like ours.

I noticed something else, that someone was strongly discouraging Rich to run with his RE-11s, something like if it’s anything under 45 or 60 degrees, that snow tires are faster, and that RE-11s are too heavy and he would lose out. Once again, I’ve never heard such a load of crap before and look and see what Richi’s runs look like because of it. He said he had brutal wheel hop off the line, and it looked to me staged behind him that he didn’t know how to launch the car, but I’d say there were other factors at work here…namely some bad advice. I ran the RE-11s the same day, at or near freezing temp, and ran my best ET ever, and better 60’s than everyone else. Just an idiot here in an automatic, no less.

#86

I don’t know that you do understand.

His car is not a monster at the top end and his pbox plots bear that out. A monster would be a monster among normal beings. His car is behaving slightly better then other similarly modded cars, and his result was amplified by a weak trap in he eighth. That’s something you are completely ignoring. Not very scientific. You are ignoring data and fitting what you can into your thesis.

Here’s a thesis… Headers killed Richie on the first half of the track. Your data proves it.

Your data also proves that in worse da with STOCK CATS the stasis v2 tune renders Richi’s headers, pulley and cps obsolete. Note the tins5 car… Barely modded and quicker than Richie with similar trap speed.

Bottom line is your analysis is swiss cheese because you are igniring the fact that Richi’s 1/8 traps are quite low.

#87

Yes you got me (or arin). When we each set up these databases and spent hours logging the information, the goal all along was to win an argument with the mighty jspazz, automatic driver supreme. You’ve got me (us).

#88

It a was more significant discount than that, basically if you were considering getting 034 HFCs, it was a price that would make you think twice. It’s relevant since total install numbers of $5000 are being thrown around when in reality it’s probably half of that.

If you look back, and I’m not a history student but have seen enough stuff come and go over the years, people (and many here) have said in threads just like these:

1.) the strat intake is junk, it robs power (and since then many have changed their minds)
2.) the HFCs are junk, they offer no power gain or even less than stock cats (and since then most everybody have changed their minds)

I’d just say don’t be so convinced about the headers, and that’s the point of this thread.

#89

Honestly I’m done arguing with you Sak, when he ends up at the SAME TRAP or higher from 3 or more mph less at the 1/8th, and you still argue, then I give up.

You were also one of the people who said the Strat causes to lose power, probably the HFCs too. Maybe you’ll have to eat your words on this too, but hey, I don’t see you admitting you’re wrong on those, either. Plus you said that winter tires will give Richi better traction, now you’re saying he was complaining of bad traction. You’ll just argue it now to suit yourself. So yes, i give up on you.

#90

What a load of shit.

NOBODY is saying the headers don’t work vs stock. The informed people who an objectively see the facts are saying the headers don’t work vs the much less costly 034 high flow cats and test pipes.

When will you get that through your brain?

Also for your information on a b6 he jhm equal length long tube headers delivered about 20 whp and 35 wtq over the best 2.5 catless downpipe options. They made 35 whp and 50 wtq over stock exhaust.

E code gives what… 20 whp over stock, and maybe 5 over the 034 cats?

lol

#91

You’re putting words in my mouth and looking desperate.

I never said ‘any idiot’ or called you an idiot for driving dsg.
I never said ‘don’t bother to put 1/8 mile traps’ in the database. I’d love all times there but they wouldn’t fit.
I never said the 034 parts rob power, I said that opposite a and argued against primetime and bear and their lfc jokes.

Primetime and bear will be the first to tell you that when I looked at the data I would always correct their lfc comments… The fastest cars had the 034 parts.

You’re acting like a desperate man. In the pursuit of winning argument about a fucking car part you are resorting to lying, libel and all around looking ridiculous.

What’s worse your puppet has gone off the deep end and is polluting other threads because he doesn’t know which way is up.

As I suggested to him, if this site is so bad, why don’t you fuck off back to Audizine? Why don’t you start telling lies about primetimes quotes because he and I are saying and seeing the same things.

#92

J, Yeah Fonz’s car always had shifting issues which to your point makes it even more impressive… W/O that hangup he would have narrowed the 1/8th-1/4 speed gap with Richi and even with it still out trapped him and would have trapped higher w/o the issue…

Also, keep in mind Imola and I went to the track over the summer(3300+DA) also when he had his interior in and we made three head to head passes, he ran between 1-1.5mph lower traps everytime… So we have more than just the missing interior runs… He had CPS then as well so it wasn’t that…

I will agree there still needs to be a bigger sample size before we know exactly where they stand but to use dynos and vendor smoke and mirros to push a product is not cool… EC and Paper make them seem like a header car is faster than HFC or test pipe car and that is not what the real world results have shown… Heck, again Ryan is faster than all of us with STOCK cats!

#93

I am looking desparate? lol. read your post here.

I could care less, except that you infect lots of people with what you consider “facts” (I’m always weary of anyone who says “facts” when considering random data), and yes, everything I wrote about what you flip flop about, like the Strat and the tires, to suit your argument, is true.

Anyway, it’s not my forum to get out of, I have a 2010 S4. Stop pretending you do or actually care.

Prime and me are always fine. Ask him. Heck ANYONE and me are always fine. Ask anyone - it’s only you who have a problem, and refuse to talk about it with me.

#94

Primetime you are making far too much sense.

I agree that ecode and Paperlion keep avoiding the facts.

Here they are, assuming your tune can take advantage of the parts (GIAC seems to have missed that on rev 1)

  1. Headers vs stock = nice gain at big cost
  2. 034 hfc vs stock = nice gain at medium to low cost
  3. 034 test vs stock = nice gain at low cost
  4. Headers vs 034 = nominal to no gains at big cost

Line 4 is what a few of us are talking about. Rather than face that, header fans are focusing on line on or any shred of bad data to hold the headers up. I don’t know why. What’s the big motivation? Pride? Money?

Richi’s results are being used as the test case and he himself has said the gains are not that big once you compare the headers cars to the other modded cars. Why is this so hard for some?

#95

^^ save that post for those that call saki a JHM-only fanboy - I believe he his bigging up 034 products! As per paper’s and jared’s logic in the RS4 exhaust thread though, has anyone done 1/4 mile runs on those on the same car, before and after?

#96

I think this is the agreement so far, and the chapter is far from closed. As a business, though, they are not the evil empire some make them out to be, they have some results, nothing to show they are faster than an HFC yet, and it would be better for them to get some track results, at least encourage some customers to go with a track day outing to sac or something.

Lol on your last sentence, god forbid you ever get Sak-attacked. His car is still interesting, tailwind gusts and un-certified track and all…his later runs were faster than mine but with shitty shitty launches.

Also people neglect the weight gains on a fully-optioned car like mine. We should start a weight thread at some point, down to the pound. Did Imola actually weight the parts coming out?

Unfortunately not, bango, which is why this thread won’t be the last…I’d like to see more myself before I decide.

Heck, if I had to decide, Id have to say the gains at this point are pretty much done with on HFCs, and maybe headers might show their strength when stage III comes out…hmmmm.

#97

I thought you were done?

You are avoiding the facts. You are clinging to anything you can to say I don’t stay true or know what I’m talking about.

The Strat intake was never tested by anyone…and when primetime got it he dynod it. And lost power. Strat ckaimed it made power on. Dyno. I don’t care about the dyno but I thought that was pretty funny to see dyno results blow up like that. Once we saw cars do a before and after acceleration test, the cars seemed to benefit so that’s good to see. I don’t remember making it my life goal to tell everyone not to buy Strat? I think you have that mixed up. The Strat guy got owned by me for his shady claims regarding jhm a while ago. Is that why you’re so mad?

The winter tires thing is something I’ve heard loads of people mention. Poor man’s drag radials is the saying. The softer compound and softer sidewalls help, don’t hinder. You get wheel hop when you have great traction, then lose it suddenly. Sticky grabs instead of spins. You need to be a little more finesse on the launch in that situation, rather than blasting it and hoping for spin. Is he lowered? Aftermarket suspension can change the setup and result in toe causing wheel hop.

#98

Yeah Sak, I’m done, until you let us talk privately, as I said. It will save everyone the hassle you see here.

#99

Someone else is getting desperate. Sounds well coached.

Paper posting in the jhm exhaust thread.

#100

I really dont understand you Saki, you hate on these headers which have proven gains, you deny any dyno claims saying dynos are bullshit and dont prove anything, but you start touting JHM’s fake skewed dyno numbers in a Eurocode header thread out of nowhere, Bipolar much? Do you take meds for your bipolar condition? Why dont you get the fuck off of these forums and go back to Audizine and leave the big boys to their discussions?