[quote=“JimmyBones”]log where you go from idle/sitting still at a long traffic light and then accelerate in first gear to redline along with a straight up 3rd gear pull from like 1,500 rpms to redline. The measuring value blocks that I would want to see are channels 3, 103, and 140
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I still can do this, but I’m pretty sure it’s the PCV system and the valve seals.
I took my IM off last night to clean both the main PCV as well as the crankcase vent tube which also has a check valve in it, and in the process I saw how the driver’s side intake ports are COVERED in fresh oil.
http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss95/FWP09/IMG_0456_zpsiy5op4vv.jpg
So now I think I should shift my focus to those areas. Jimmy - I saw in another thread how you can use a tool to replace the seals with the heads on the car? Any info on that?
Top ports are the front of the engine -
http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss95/FWP09/IMG_0457_zpsecuosxoe.jpg
You had said that you saw black smoke which is usually extra unburnt fuel. Oil burning off usually looks like blue smoke. That is why I said what I did but in the back of mind I was wondering about the PCV system and valve stem seals. It is to be expected that the RS4s would run into leaking valve stem seals after 80-100K miles just like the B6/7 S4s. I would personally start with a new $250ish PCV valve though because it is a lot cheaper than the other route.
By the way, I recently had a V8 S5 that had fresh oil and carbon buildup after a little more than 200 miles after a carbon clean because of a bad PCV valve. You can read about it here:
http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=3781.msg109810#msg109810
Yes, there is a tool set to replace the valve stem seals with the cylinder heads still bolted to the block. I am pretty sure that the repair manual still says to drop the engine/transmission because the camshafts timing chains and camshafts have to be removed. I was going to replace the valve stem seals with the engine still in the car on Slow4’s B6 S4 until we discovered that three valves were bent. I can post pictures of the tools and more info about the tools later tonight. The tool set to remove the valve keepers is outrageously expensive though, like $1,500 to $2K if I remember right. I don’t have to specialty plate for the 4 valve FSI engines because it didn’t come with the kit. Only the 5 valve plate for the older MPI engines and a weird 4 valve diesel plate came in the kit. But the FSI 4 valve plate is a relatively inexpensive optional extra.
Great thread, very cool to see all the work you do on these cars. I didn’t know you can pop the cap off of the PCV valve, should I do that on mine you think to see if the diaphragm is ok? This oil buildup is very new, I had the intake manifold off in August and everything was dry, seeing all of this wet fresh oil is a new development.
Thanks, I try to post some of the cool repairs that I do. Most of the basic maintenance is pretty boring so I don’t bother unless it is something special.
Yes, you can pop the black cap off to check the PCV. I would do it but don’t break the cap. Make sure that the spring moves easily too. If it feels like it is stuck or it binds then I would replace the PCV.
Excellent info Jimmy!!
I already had a new PCV on order, so I said screw it and went hog wild with the one that was on the car. Took out the two small “baskets” and the small spring, diaphragm looked ok so I drilled out the opening in the end and put it back together with just the diaphragm and the large spring to keep it away from the opening. Car runs/drives fine so far, no codes.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/10/266f639e78d2092aef7c4285bfb2274b.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/10/8ae57b9c7d3ceb24e6647a7c97888a86.jpg
Oh and just to add, if this works, it was koolade9’s idea, he gets the credit 8)
I like where this thread is going. I too have fresh oil on my IM every time I pull it. I’ve also replaced my PCV recently. Quite an annoying PCV system we have. Can someone just fix this shit plz? >:( ;D
Looking forward to your results with the modded PCV.
As promised, here are some of the pictures that I took while using the Audi specialty tools to replace the valve stem seals with the heads still bolted to the block on Slow4’s B6 S4. This may seem intimidating but it is done in a few minutes per seal and is actually pretty easy once you do the first seal replacement.
To start off with here is some behind the scenes information. The timing chains, camshafts, spark plugs, and a bunch of other parts were removed. The big things are the three items that I specifically listed. In the below picture the rocker arms are zip-tied up so that they are out of the way. The repair manual says to use string or something else but I am cheap and zip-ties work well for this. I also had the compressed air fitting screwed into the spark plug hole. It is much like a cylinder leakage fitting to apply air pressure to the side of the valve inside the head. That holds the valve in place while the valve retainer and spring are removed. Otherwise the valve would fall down and you would run into major issues.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132007_zps8yygwdfc.jpg
The valve keeper removal/reinstallation tool set uses a specialty plate for the different valve arrangement. I was working on a B6 S4 that uses a 5 valve per cylinder design. The specialty plate is perfectly set up to bolt up flush to the cylinder head. Then there are machined holes cut into the plate so that the valve keeper removal tool goes perfectly down onto the top of the valve and valve keepers. It has dimples on the bottom of the plate that sit in the holes where the cylinder head bolts go to make sure that it is aligned. Then there are little finger screws (not pictured) that go through the small holes (next to the dimples) and screw into the threads for the camshaft bearing cap bolts so that the plate stays tight to the head when the valve spring is pushed down or else the plate would warp and possibly break because the valve springs are really strong. On the top side of the plate there are four holes around the spark plug tube opening so the lever device can get different angles to push the retainers and valve springs down with the valve keeper removal tool to remove the valve keepers.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132032_zpsnmvm69dq.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132041_zpszq5azpeh.jpg
The RS4 V8s use the FSI 4 valve arrangement plate that looks like this. By the way, when I went on Audi’s specialty tool website the valve cotter tool kit has dropped to just over $700. Here is a big F*** YOU to the greedy bastards at AUDI because it was a lot more expensive when I had to buy the kit!
This is the actual valve keeper removal tool.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132131_zpsg536xkyg.jpg
This is the specialty plate bolted to the top of the cylinder head. The top of the black finger screws that hold the plate to the cylinder head are visible. The valve keeper tool is dropped into the hole for the front most intake valve. Part of the lever piece was screwed into place from before but you can see a different angle of it in this picture. The air line that goes into the spark plug tube has the actual air line from my air compressor above it ready to be attached.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132144_zpsjcrjehz9.jpg
In this picture the rest of the lever piece for pressing the valve keeper removal tool is put into place.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132220_zpscgipvi7q.jpg
Ok, here is the point of no return for replacing the valve stem seal. If your air compressor can’t flow enough air and you don’t get the valve stem seal replaced and everything put back together fast enough then the valve falls down and you have to pull the cylinder head. I have the valve keeper removal tool pressed down with the lever to pull the valve keepers. The cap of the top of the valve keeper removal tool is pressed up because the valve keepers are still around the top of the valve.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132237_zpsacxcrlcf.jpg
Here the cap of the valve keeper removal tool is down because the tool has sucked the valve keepers up into it and it is ready to come back out.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132248_zpsejir8bzb.jpg
This is the end of the valve keeper removal tool with the valve keepers still inside it.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132257_zpsdl2oerax.jpg
After removing the valve keepers then the next step is to remove the lever, valve keeper removal tool, finger screws that hold the plate to the cylinder head, lift the plate up and spin it so that there is room to see the exposed valve retainer and spring. The air line has to stay attached because the compressed air is the only thing holding the valve in place.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132331_zps8e9echuw.jpg
Removed the valve retainer and spring with a long pair of pliers. Under the valve retainer and spring the valve stem seal is around the base of the opening that valve goes through.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132345_zpsn2zhcst6.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132403_zpsm1luyp2z.jpg
To remove the valve stem seal, there is a mini slide hammer that pulls the valve stem seal out. The bottom of the valve stem seal remover flares out and then a tube slides down to keep a tight fit around the seal.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132416_zpsp3b4hv96.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132434_zpsxxexh5bz.jpg
Comparison picture of the old vs new valve stem seals.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132506_zpswsm2t3cz.jpg
Then the new valve stem seals need to be lubricated when installed so that the seal isn’t damaged when it is installed. I used silicone spray but engine oil would work too. Then I used long pliers to get the valve stem seal on the top of the valve stem as best as possible.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132515_zpsqj8m99dc.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132528_zpszpuxa7v8.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132533_zpskypchmme.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132540_zpsbslq9cd1.jpg
To finish installing the new valve stem seal, there is a plastic seal installer. The procedure is to tap valve stem seal down with the installer tool by tapping it with a plastic hammer. Once the valve stem seal is all the way down and into place then the valve retainer and spring can be put back into place.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132545_zpsxwfulvdl.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132553_zpswme1zdgh.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132616_zps70lyjrkb.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/20140908_132626_zps0jvwm6g5.jpg
Hopefully I haven’t overwhelmed you guys because this sounds complicated but it is really easy after the first seal is replaced. After the first seal is replaced then the rest are just a repetitive procedure over and over again until all the valve stem seals are replaced. The thing that I worried about is having a valve fall down from the air compressor tripping the circuit breaker and running out of air pressure. However I was able to do like two or three valve stem seals before my Harbor Freight 29 gallon air compressor had to fill back up. It helps that the valves only need like 6 bar/90 psi of pressure behind it to hold the valve in place and my compressor has a max pressure of 145 psi along with it flows a lot of CFMs at 90 psi. I really need to upgrade to an 80 gallon 220 volt Ingersoll air compressor but they are very pricey, take up a bunch of room, and are loud as shit.
While typing this up, something came to my mind. When the valve stem seals would fail on the B6/7 S4s then sometimes there would be oil pooled on the intake valves after shutting the car off. That oil pooling on the intake valves after multiple hot starts (like running errands) could also lead to carbon buildup, just saying.
^^Awesome write-up!! It’s amazing what a difference the right tools make…
Since the cams are out, could you rotate the crank so the cylinder you’re working on is at TDC? Then if you lose air pressure, the valve doesn’t drop very far.
Yea that’s fantastic!
I dunno… part of me is worried that the JHM tune that was causing my engine to ping really badly has done some damage, potentially to the cylinder walls, causing excess blow-by, causing this extra pressure in the cylinder heads, making the seals weep more than they used to. The tune has been fixed, but it took them about two months to get me a new one, and this was over the summer. I’m going to get a leak down test done here whenever I can and see what’s up. If it’s the short block, I really don’t know what I’m gonna do.
Thanks.
I have to double check but I am pretty sure that the repair manual says to have the pistons at BDC so the valves don’t get pushed down into the pistons. If I had run out of air pressure then I would have tried to grab the top of the valve stem with my fingers and hold it there until someone else went and reset the circuit breaker for the air compressor to fill back up.
So far so good with the modded PCV. Drove around some between last night and today and here are some things I’ve noticed -
- Totally, 100%, buttery smooth idle, even when cold. It purrs now.
- Smoke, so far, has not shown up at all, even after sitting all night and firing it up this morning, nor after a long drive and letting it idle for a while and stabbing the gas, or when I do a WOT pull on the highway.
- About a week ago I installed new O2 sensors, all 4 brand new from Bosch. I was checking every day for about a week for readiness to be set in VAG COM, but the O2 sensor readiness kept saying failed/not installed, even after a lot of highway driving, some spirited driving, etc. I even did a reset a few days ago, and again, all readiness codes were green except for O2. After doing this mod (not sure if it’s related or not), I’m green across the board in under 10 miles for both ECU’s! Very happy to see that!
- Before, if I was cruising and pushed the clutch in and let the revs fall to idle, the revs would fall straight to about 400 or 500, and then bounce back up to 750 and fluctuate before settling. This happened every time. Now, the revs fall and it sticks right at 750, doesn’t bounce, and idles SO damn smooth.
I’ll report back in a few days with anything else I find. I’m thinking about doing a carbon cleanout this weekend so that I can see what this mod does to freshly cleaned intake ports. I am curious if now that I’ve introduced a lot more flow in the system if I’ll find an oily intake manifold now whereas before it was pretty dry. I’d MUCH rather clean the IM than the intake ports.
Great report and update. It would be great to hear back on this in the next few days and weeks. If everything stays good it might be a good idea to make a thread just about your issues and solutions to post here.
One week later (driven through 1 and a half tanks of gas), and not one trace of smoke, at all. Even my exhaust tips are staying cleaner, haha. And the carbon clean I did last weekend has made a huge difference in power… the buildup didn’t appear to be that bad, but it must have made a difference. Car runs like a top now!
Do you want to try flashing back to the standard JHM Tune?
Do you realize yet that the tune wasn’t your issue? Your car is the actual issue and a fucking tune can’t fix your car’s mechanical issues. This is why you fucking annoy me and every person like you is annoying. Take care of your own issues and maintenance before blaming a fucking TUNE. A tune that runs perfectly fine on hundreds of other cars…except yours and maybe a few other that also had underlying mechanical issues.
You are too easily swayed by your anti-JHM folks to allow yourself a logical thought process.
The tune wasn’t “fixed”…it was most likely watered down for your car and it’s mechanical issues, but on AZ it was COMPLETELY the JHM tunes fault…is your story now changing?
yeah, I have to say FWP you have been a bit of a bummer. Jumping on the ‘it’s JHM’s fault’ bandwagon is hilarious when your car clearly had its own issues. I’m glad it’s behaving better now. .
There are literally 50 RS4 owners on this little site here with the tune, and NONE OF THEM have had your problems. Did you listen to those who told you so? Nope. You listened to FlyingShitbreath and BadNeighbourhoodRS4 and their anti-JHM agenda…a bunch of guys who neither have the tune they’re (and you’re) blaming) and who in fact are paid to promote JHM competitors in FlyingShitbreath’s case.
Hopefully now you recognise the folly of listening to those dummies who are just using you to further their obvious agenda instead of listening to those who actually want to solve your problems.