CEL codes 16405,16395,17755,17748 - Only caused by bad mech cam adjusters??

B6/7 S4/RS4
#1

Hello guys. About a week ago I got a CEL. Upon scanning I found the 16405 and 16395 codes.(plus a few other codes) Right about the same time the codes came up, a loud clacking sound started coming from the area of the intake manifold. The sound seems to come right from the middle of the IM.

Scanning again today I found the 17755 and 17748 codes.(plus a few new codes)

Can a bad IM cause these codes?(bad/broken intake flapper,maybe?) Something is clacking around in there pretty loudly.

Also, maybe this could be related,the paint on the runners on the passenger side of the IM is peeling off. Probably from overheating? Judging from the other CEL codes I’m getting, the engine seems to be running lean and is knocking.

I’m hoping I don’t have to pull the engine to replace bad cam adjusters. Could I get lucky and replace my IM with a nice shiny new IM from JHM and have these codes go away? (I’m guessing probably not)

Here are my last two VAG-Com scans.

[b]Saturday, 9 August 2014, 16:30:26:58502
VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.1
Control Module Part Number: 8E0 910 560 C
Component and/or Version: 4.7L V8/5+ JHM.SG 0010
Software Coding: 0007771
Work Shop Code: WSC 08252
VCID: 253D9611ACEF

6 Faults Found:

18530 - Post-Catalyst Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Correction; Bank 2: Too Lean

    P2098 - 002 -  Lower Limit Exceeded

18528 - Post-Catalyst Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Correction; Bank 1: Too Lean

    P2096 - 002 -  Lower Limit Exceeded

16405 - Bank 2: Camshaft A (Intake): Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)

    P0021 - 008 -  Implausible Signal

16395 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)

    P0011 - 008 -  Implausible Signal

17730 - Knock Sensor 3 (G198): Signal too Large

    P1322 - 001 -  Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

17732 - Knock Sensor 2 (G199): Signal too Large

    P1324 - 001 -  Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

Saturday, 16 August 2014, 15:29:12:58502
VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.1
Control Module Part Number: 8E0 910 560 C
Component and/or Version: 4.7L V8/5+ JHM.SG 0010
Software Coding: 0007771
Work Shop Code: WSC 08252
VCID: 253D9611ACEF

9 Faults Found:

17755 - Camshaft Position Sensor 2 (G163) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Incor. Correl.

    P1347 - 001 -  Upper Limit Exceeded

17748 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Incor. Correlation

    P1340 - 001 -  Upper Limit Exceeded

17730 - Knock Sensor 3 (G198): Signal too Large

    P1322 - 001 -  Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

17732 - Knock Sensor 2 (G199): Signal too Large

    P1324 - 001 -  Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

16717 - Knock Sensor 2 (G66): Signal too High

    P0333 - 001 -  Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

16712 - Knock Sensor 1 (G61): Signal too High

    P0328 - 001 -  Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

17738 - Knock-Control: Cylinder 6: Regulation Limit Exceeded

    P1330 - 001 -  Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

17739 - Knock-Control: Cylinder 7: Regulation Limit Exceeded

    P1331 - 001 -  Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

16490 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96): Implausible Signal

    P0106 - 008 -  Implausible Signal - Intermittent[/b]
#2

Long list of codes all on the level of incorrect cam position. The good news is no missfires. Missfires are always a big sign of trouble. But the knock and 02 codes are usually associated with cam out of fase.

Clear codes don’t start but key up for 45 seconds and check codes. Then start idle and turn off and check codes. Report back that should tell us more.

#3

Justin,thanks for your help.

I am very surprised to find no misfire codes. It certainly feels and sounds like the engine is misfiring, particularly from idle to about 3500 rpm during stoplight to stoplight city driving.(not as noticeable at higher rpms at highway speeds) Throttle response is horrible from idle when I press the gas pedal. Acceleration is very flat then all of a sudden it seems like the timing catches up and the car takes off. Almost feels like really bad turbo lag.

I did what you asked twice. Results the same both times.

Cleared the faults that were there,
keyed off and waited 30 sec.,
keyed back on and waited about a minute,opened vag-com and scanned and found codes 17748 and 17755(I did not clear codes),
started engine and let idle for about a half hour and found no new codes and only the 17748 and 17755 codes.

Here is the scan after doing the check you asked.

Sunday, 17 August 2014, 13:34:35:58502
VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.1
Control Module Part Number: 8E0 910 560 C
Component and/or Version: 4.7L V8/5+ JHM.SG 0010
Software Coding: 0007771
Work Shop Code: WSC 08252
VCID: 253D9611ACEF

2 Faults Found:

17755 - Camshaft Position Sensor 2 (G163) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Incor. Correl.
P1347 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded

17748 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Incor. Correlation
P1340 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded

I had to go to the market after doing this test today. I cleared the 17748 and 17755 codes, fired up the engine, CEL came back on immediately, when I got back I scanned again and found the same 17748/17755 codes plus 17730 and 17732 knock sensor codes. These are also the same exact codes that were there this morning before I cleared them to do the test you asked.

Thanks for you help.

#4

now that we know where we are at. I would highly suggest trying to not drive the car any further then you have to.

Next step is to go outside ONLY LET THE CAR IDLE AND ONE SMALL ROLL INTO THE THROTTLE TO 2200RPM on this test.

Log 091-092-093 Then put into a excel screen shot and load up here. Log the car at idle for about 5 seconds then slowly rev the car to 2200 let it come back to idle and then shut down the car.

#5

Should I clear any existing codes first?

#6

At this point for refrence you can. Cam codes generally take 1 or 2 key cycles to come on. I would start fresh with no codes. Then run the test and see what comes up. DON’T run the car for long.

#7

Looks like you really have a lot going on. I would absolutely run the logs Justin suggested, and post the results. I will also try to peak in throughout the day to see if I can add any support.

#8

Ok, I hope I did this correctly. I’ve never really done much logging through Vag-com.

Just so I’m sure I’m doing what you asked, here’s what I did.

went to Measuring Blocks, enter 091,092 and 093 then clicked Go on each
clicked on Log, then clicked Start
started engine, let idle for about 5-6 seconds, then slowly brought the rpms up to approx. 2200 rpm for about 10-15 seconds
let rpms come back down to idle, then shut off the engine
clicked Stop on Log tab

I found it very difficult to modulate the gas pedal smoothly once the rpm hit 2000. Right at 2000 rpms,the revs would suddenly shoot up, making it difficult to raise the rpms evenly and from that point. It was difficult trying to keep the rpms right at 2200,also.

I hope this is what you are asking for. I don’t have Excel specifically, the screen shot was from OpenOffice. All I see is numbers. Hopefully,you can make sense of it. :slight_smile:


http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss305/mad70sx/logs1_zps01c7499b.jpg


http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss305/mad70sx/logs2_zps1be6a5b4.jpg

#9

Looks lime you logged it right can you try to reload it into excel so each block has its own excel cell. It’s very hard to determine what is what.

#10

Justin. Unfortunately,I don’t have Excel on my computer at home. I’ll email the file to my work computer which has Excel on it and I will post back tomorrow. Thanks for your help,so far.

#11

Try google docs

#12

How’s this? (thanks Euro.)

Looks like nothing was recorded for Group C: 093. Nothing was showing at 093 on Vag-com itself either when I was logging,even though I clicked on “Go”. Seems to show a time stamp but nothing else.

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss305/mad70sx/scanlog1_zps06e644d1.jpg

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss305/mad70sx/scanlog2_zpsf2555c48.jpg

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss305/mad70sx/scanlog3_zpsfb6f181c.jpg

#13

Something major is wrong, don’t start the car again. When you don’t see values that’s telling you its so far out of range there is no data.

Is it loud at idle?
Where are you located?

#14

Damn… I drove it to work today.(and I’m still at work) It’s my daily driver,I guess I need to figure out something fast.

I know it may sound crazy but it doesn’t seem to be running that poorly. Throttle response is way off but it seems ok at highway speeds. Doesn’t seem to be down on power a great deal. CEL is on but not flashing.

The clacking is noticable at idle with the hood open. Much louder as the rpms go up.(when in park,not under load) Is the engine on the verge of grenading? I’m guessing the engine is detonating like crazy?

I live in Rhode Island,btw.

What is 093 looking,anyway?

Thanks,CV.

#15

The flashing would be bad. The knock is bad try to keep it part throttle. I agree you need to be careful. If the cams got stuck back then it’s possible to drive. If you can pull the passenger side valve cover and inspect the guide and chain.

#16

Fortunately,the CEL is not blinking.

What would I be looking for if I were to pull the valve cover? Severely worn or broken guide?

I’m guessing I’m not getting out of this easy. Probably the adjusters or worn/broken guides?

#17

It’s hard to tell the only for sure thing is that the cams arnt making the adjustment points. Hearing that crack noise helps. The question is what cracked.

#18

Check the connections, check the logs and make sure everything is still ok. You just really want to be careful, from what your showing the car needs to have timing system work done. Something is severely off.

#19

Sorry…what connections and logs should I be looking at? Cam position sensor connections,maybe?

Also,do you think the valve cover gasket will survive and can temporarily be reused if I remove the valve cover this weekend?

Thanks.

#20

Yes and yes. The gaskets will live just take your time. You might want to add some light rtv to the corners.