Clutch Hydraulics Nightmare

Hi all, I have a 2005 B6 S4 6MT. About 15k miles ago I did a full engine replacement due to cylinder wall scoring, and at that time did basically every maintenance and reliability update I could including a new stock Luk flywheel and SAC clutch setup, as well as the USP slave cylinder and stainless pressure line. Everything went fine with that install and I had no issues gravity bleeding the system.

Fast forward to recently; I was driving in a normal manner (not launching etc) when I noticed a third gear upshift felt a little difficult. Then, I started hearing a weird buzzing/groaning sound coming from under the dash. I reached a stoplight and could not get the car into any gear; I finally managed to jam it into third and limp it home. On every shift that same sound was coming from under the dash after lifting the clutch pedal. Once home, I shut it off and immediately could shift into every gear with ease, ruling out a linkage or alignment issue. At this point it seemed clear the issue was the clutch master cylinder; the car has 130k miles and it’s the original one, so I wasn’t that surprised. To confirm the diagnosis, I found no fluid leaking anywhere from the lines or out of the bell housing, nor was the fluid in the reservoir low or going down, and I was also able to pump the clutch up to get it to go into gear so that I could move it around my garage.

I replaced the master cylinder (after receiving a defective one first and installing it only for it to leak into the cabin) with a stock Sachs replacement and that’s where all the issues have begun. I cannot get this system to bleed. I have gravity bled, I have buddy bled with pedal pumping (both with the bleeder open and single press down, then close bleeder, and also with the bleeder closed, pump up pedal, crack bleeder and close again). I have pressure bled multiple times with a Motive pressure bleeder; Bentley manual says 2.5 bar (36psi); the gauge on the Motive goes to 30, and I’ve done it at 30, 25, 20, 15, etc. I’ve reverse bled it by pumping fluid out of the nearest brake bleeder using the brake pedal and into the slave bleeder as a “closed loop” approach that some folks reported success with on VW’s. I’ve probably put about a gallon of brake fluid (Valvoline DOT 4) through this system. Sometimes a bubble will come out and often a fizz will appear in the tube when pressure bleeding which I believe is coming from the bleeder threads since it stops when I wiggle it around. Throughout all this, there are zero leaks (aside from various fluid spills at the reservoir which is always fun), and the pedal feel is basically the same aside from occasional times that I probably have drawn in air for one reason or another and it gets soft and then firms up with some pumps.

My buddy helping me is more experienced than me and is completely dumbfounded. He sat there pumping the clutch for a while one of the days we worked on it and watched bubbles slowly coming up out of the reservoir every once in a while as he was continuously pumping, but still, every time I start the car up, it will not go into gear. And still, pumping up the clutch a few times builds enough pressure to get it to go into gear. It’s on 4 jack stands right now, rear slightly higher than front, so the wheels are freely dangling in the air. Just tonight after another pressure bleeding attempt I was able to pump the clutch to get it into gear and then held the pedal down for like 3 minutes straight and the wheels did not begin turning, so it doesn’t seem to be decaying pressure off, but that refill stroke just pulls in air somewhere, or something. If I don’t pump the clutch enough times, and I don’t have my foot on the brake, you can see the wheels start spinning once I try to push it into gear, as the synchros are able to operate with no resistance on the wheels.

I’ve replaced the feed tube between the reservoir and master as it was looking pretty chewed up. That didn’t help, but now I feel better about it. I’ve now ordered a new USP slave cylinder and stainless line just to replace them even though they’re not very old at all in hopes that it will be the magic bullet, a bypassing slave that isn’t leaking externally, but I’m getting pretty frustrated. I’m not one to throw in the towel and take it to a shop, but furthermore if I do limp it there, I don’t know what they would do that I haven’t. The only thing I haven’t tried is vacuum bleeding; I don’t have a setup for it but I would buy one if it would work, but I feel that air would just get sucked in through the bleeder threads during that procedure. And of course, through all this, the access to the bleeder is atrocious and I can barely get my hand up there to open and close it, so doing much with it without lowering the rear of the trans seems unlikely.

I don’t believe this is a mechanical issue (separated friction disc, SAC ratcheted down, broken clutch fork) due to the fact that it held power just fine when I was driving it during the incident and I am able to get it to disengage with clutch pumping and it stays disengaged until I lift the pedal.

Does anyone have any ideas?

An update - no resolution. After trying a few more things I ended up replacing the slave and pressure line as well. I discovered the old slave, despite being the metal USP Motorsports one, had no identifying markings on it and the piston and bore were pretty scored up. I thought that was my smoking gun and installed a new one, also from USP, but this one now has obvious Sachs branding all over it. In any case, this made no difference. The system is still exactly the same; can’t disengage clutch until pumping up the pedal, at which point it disengages and stays that way indefinitely until I let the pedal up again. It hits the normal pickup point and starts spinning the wheels (car up in the air) as expected with no noise or rattles. I put a borescope into the slave opening when I had it out and was able to see that the SAC has barely traveled (which makes sense since the clutch is so new), and the fork looks fine from what I can see. I am truly at a loss.

Final update in case anyone happens to come across this in the future with similar issues.

The problem was hydraulic as all the symptoms indicated, even though I had nearly given up on believing that. It seems that a small pocket of air was still trapped somewhere in the system and no amount of bleeding by any method was able to expel it as the fluid was likely just passing right by it. What i ended up doing was pumping the pedal about 250 times in rapid succession - this was probably more than necessary, but the idea was that it broke up the air bubble and dispersed it into the fluid in the form of microbubbles. I then just let it gravity bleed and expel all that aerated fluid, replenished with a steady supply of fresh fluid from the reservoir. I repeated this twice more after letting things settle down and the clutch is now able to completely disengage and the car can be driven around.

The pickup point is still a little low to my recollection of how it used to feel, but that makes sense if there is still a tiny bit of air trapped in there, and other accounts of similar issues indicate this remaining air is likely enough to work its way up and out the reservoir vent eventually. I could also try bleeding again later on if it bothers me too much.

I do believe the original failure while I was driving was due to the slave cylinder. The piston and bore were scored up and it looked to have been side-loading. This is unfortunate from an “upgraded” slave cylinder especially after just 15k miles. If this were my daily driver it would have been within USP’s warranty period. The replacement I got from them is a Sachs SH6140 with the Audi part number 4A0 721 261 cast right on it. This correlates to old Audi 100/200/Ur-S4 models before Audi moved to the injection molded plastic with PTC hydraulic port. I am not sure if the part is completely standard or if USP is swapping out the pushrod to fit the 0A3 transmission but either way it seems like the part I got now is a solid enough OEM type replacement which will hopefully last longer than the first one (which was totally unmarked and has a completely different piston retention mechanism).

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Well, that was not actually the final update after all. I went out to drive the car and do some data logging for a completely unrelated and equally frustrating situation where it feels down on power yet nothing shows up out of ordinary in the logs. While doing this, the clutch pickup point remained on the floor and then the shifting effort started to increase until it once again could no longer be shifted without pumping the clutch. This was after maybe 10 miles of driving. I limped it back home and figured I just needed to bleed it some more as I did previously. While doing this, I noticed that I had routed the upgraded clutch line incorrectly, in front of the brake booster instead of behind it, which caused it to enter the firewall grommet at the wrong angle and push that grommet out of its hole. This hadn’t resulted in any damage after just a few miles, but it would eventually cause chafing of the line against the sharp metal edge. I unhooked the line from the master so that I could reroute it and then struggled for probably 2 hours to get it to click back into the master, losing a bunch of fluid in the process, and essentially restarting my whole bleeding process. I used the pressure bleeder again and then my “pump the pedal a ton of times” method and this didn’t get me anywhere. I finally gave up and contacted a shop, which I normally avoid doing, and was able to limp it over there. At this point, even pumping the clutch didn’t help with shifting and I basically had to just rev match as best I could and shut it off entirely at lights so that I could start it in gear. The shop also bled it repeatedly with a vacuum bleeder, tried out my old factory slave and line, and replaced the master that I had already replaced (at my request) just to rule out a defective part. None of that helped, and they ultimately pulled the transmission.

The thing that really sucks is that inside they found nothing visibly wrong. I went over and checked it out while they had it apart and it all looked normal; there was nothing I had done incorrectly on installing the clutch and flywheel, etc. The flywheel had hot spotting probably from this saga, and the pressure plate looked oddly untouched at all. The disc was basically as new as can be expected for just 13,000 miles of use. They ended up replacing everything including the fork (which I hadn’t replaced, but also looked fine) and now it finally works properly, but it was pretty unsatisfying to find nothing to point to as the obvious point of failure. Best guess is a defective pressure plate; maybe the SAC mechanism seized up or something. I don’t know why pumping the clutch made it disengage initially, or why I was hearing gurgling sounds from the pedal area when the problem first started happening, but anyway, many thousands of dollars later, the car is fixed.

The good news is I wasn’t doing anything specifically wrong with bleeding it; the bad news is, apparently these stock Luk clutches may fail mysteriously. I know that no part or brand is infallible but this is a first for me. If I was launching the car or running a lot more power than stock I could understand a failure but that type of failure would probably be a visibly destroyed component, and in any case my only power mod is headers and I don’t abuse the clutch.

I don’t know if this helps anybody dealing with clutch issues as it seems like a really weird outlier situation but I just wanted to report back with the final results since it wasn’t a hydraulic issue after all.