Correction Factors, safe levels?

B5 S4/ RS4
#1

I asked this on audizine, but I figured it deserves a spot over here as well.

What do you all think are safe numbers for correction factors? (on oem knock control maps)

I have heard under 10, under 7 and some think that no correction factor is acceptable. What do you all think?

Would really love for expert tuners to share some insite on this. On other forums like Evo, Dsm and Subaru forums, the tuners don’t seem to mind sharing this to help the advancement of the community. I really hope we can get as much of this info as public as possible. Many more of us are tuning our own cars, or logging and talking with our tuners. Any info would help!

Also some thoughts on modifying the knock detection methods, is this safe when done within limits? Do any tuners do this? On nefmoto there has been talk of reducing the knock sensitivity.

Here are a couple of mine for reference (stock knock control methods):
3rd gear

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/boomerw/3rd_timing_1.png

2nd gear

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/boomerw/2nd_timing_1.png

multi gear pull

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/boomerw/MultiGear_1_2_3-IgnitionRetardCyl1IgnitionRetardCyl2IgnitionRetardCyl3IgnitionRetardCyl4IgnitionRetardCyl5IgnitionRetardCyl6andIntakeAirTemp.png

(this thread is not just about my personal logs, but it helps show what I am running, id love to see other peoples as well)

Thanks in advance!

#2

My limited understanding of the subject is that retardation is your ECU safety parameters stepping in to protect the car. Seeing it pulling back timing isn’t necessarily unsafe…it just means the combination of motorhealth/modlist/conditions/fuel/tune aren’t ‘ideal’.

The tune makes a timing request, but the safety parameters are looking for reasons to retard the timing when conditions might make it unsafe. For example I have heard of a number of triggers for the ECU to pull back timing, including temperatures, bad fuel, knock, moisture in the air, hitting a bump even…there are boatloads of triggers.

If your tune is asking for unrealistic timing, and the safety is constantly pulling back timing, you should probably rethink the tune parameters or examine your modlist. In a perfect world you would have no timing correction, but that would likely mean that:

a) conditions are absolutely perfect and the advance is perfectly matched to the perfect conditions (unlikely to always be the case, but might work out some times)
b) there is very little requested, thus no need to pull any back (maybe on a base base base file?)
c) someone has turned off the safety (popular in the early days…and some say that strategy is enjoying a renaissance with REVO on the B8 S4)

#3

We typically recommend under 5 degrees. Slightly over is fine, but once you start seeing 6 and 7 I would start looking at your fuel.

#4

That is a very broken down version of what the Correction Factors are. Some of what you said is wrong, it just just trigger arbitrarily off of random stuff, its a complex filtering algorithm that takes the knock voltage, and “listens” for certain frequencies and patterns in the voltage that have been shown to be correlated to the times when pre-ignition is present in an engine. These algorithms are made and tested on an engine dyno and tuned with precision.

I am wondering what specific professional tuners and DYI tuners feel are safe numbers for Correction Factors using the OEM knock filtering maps.

#5

Are you referring to just straight knock induced correction?

#6

That is all correction factors are, knock induced corrections. Correction factors do not include any other timing being pulled, the timing due to intake temps and such are not logged with ECUx.

#7

What can make this question hard to answer are the level of influences and variables. You’re better to control the influences then the reaction to them. Thats what makes for part of a good fast car.

#8

This is assuming that you have tuned properly for intake temp conditions, and you are getting constant quality gas. The variables and influences will reduce greatly if you have a driver who is intelligent and a tuner who knows how the cars react to temp changes and conditions. All those being equal, it really is a simple question to answer.

When tuning, what numbers are safe for the stock rods and motor, assuming stock ring gap and a quality compression on all cylinders?

#9

I hate to sound arrogant, but “if it really is a simple question to answer” why are you asking?

If you couldn’t infer from the responses thus far that the members here are letting you know you aren’t getting “the” answer your asking for maybe you haven’t yet realized…you’re not getting a definitive answer…for more than one reason.

#10

Well I think the OP isn’t getting the fact that each car and its list of mods is different. Each fuel is different and each set up is different. If your on C16 you shouldn’t get getting big corrections. If your on 93 then your going to be seeing mild correction depending on your set up. Lastly if your on 91 your corrections are going to be much higher depending on the quality of the 91 and where you got it. IE. Ca 91 has many additives to it that makes it more like water then fuel. So CA 91 and PA 91 are two different quality fuels for making power.

#11

careful…the OP will report you to the police for not doing your logging homework.

#12

I hear ya, that’s what others were inferring. “Influences and VARIABLES.”

#13

Oh but I do and apparently Audi is trying to blow up my 100% stock Audi s4 when I picked it up from Ca I did actually log it. I really only logged it to verify that my vag cable still worked. But thankfully the NASA team of technical guys on AZ have said my stock tune stock b5 is a ticking time bomb as my correction factors hit 14 and were in the 12s most of the time wot. Better fuel fixed it but what an close call its a shame to see audi isn’t as good tuning these cars as the guys on AZ.

#14

Have you ever tuned a car? Go troll more you pathetic piece of shit.

#15

lol

No but I have a serious question…have you ever fucked a girl in your life? Seriously, ever? And I don’t count rape either or jerking off to pictures of manatees. I mean actual intercourse?

Anyway have fun this semester in school. Because make no fucking mistake you are still in school and I think before you go flashing around your future Co-OP sponsor employer name, you should clarify. You haven’t even got a job.

Last time I checked the only time someone sys “I am going to be working at xyz company in ten months” is because he is either

A) a senior executive who is going to be transferred to another division in his parent company. Since you’re in school still that’s clearly not why
B) a student who has booked a Co-OP term placement at that company.
C) a liar

So…? Care to fill us all in? I’m betting on B but there’s a strong case to be made for C with the delusional crazy rants you have thrown about.

#16

my money is on c…

sent with my Galaxy S3 using tapatalk

#17

hey Ive tuned several cars and Ive built several turbo kits for GM cars. You know the sad part about you. Your too stupid to realizse that almost no one wants a car thatyou have to log all the time. you still havent been able to help answer the question. how has all this logging advanced the performance of the B5 comunity other then to create a bin full of arm chair keyboard tuners like yourself.