Dragstrip visit + Interesting logging results

So I hit the dragstrip today with Mistro. First excuse right up front: it was hot out. Not 100 degrees waterfest style hot…but it was about 80 degrees and humidity was reasonably high according to dragtimes. Density altitude was up around 1000 feet by the time we got there (when temps were down around 70 degrees), and around 2000 when we left. So conditions sorta sucked for the dragstrip (for NA cars anyway) but Mistro is getting carbon cleaned and wanted to try a before after so I went with him to support him in his battle with the many 7 second @ 180 MPH domestics who were in town for proper race series tomorrow. While these weren’t awful conditions, we knew going in we were using today as a benchmark and that we wouldn’t be setting any records. Or would we? (No, we wouldn’t.)

One of the things I wanted to do was test the timing pull on 93 octane vs. 100 octane. So I did a bunch of passes on pump gas, then when there was a bracket event on, I logged the car on a flat road just outside the motorsports park, then threw in 10 litres of 100 octane, drove for 10 minutes, then logged again on that same road.

Two things stood out from the log:

1. my car was not restricting the throttle below 5250 RPM. This confirms that it’s temperature dependant (or maybe ‘engine torque’ dependant). I had logged in the cold and saw 52.5% throttle until 5250 RPM where it went to 100%. I logged in mild temperatures and saw 72% throttle until 5250 RPM when it went 100%. Now I have logged in 80+ degree temperatures with high humidity and with 110 celsius oil temperatures, and have seen 100% throttle right through the RPM range. I wish I could delete that frigging restriction in the cold weather (without needing a tune that is).

2. Race gas helped reduce timing pull…a lot. on 93 octane (a mix of 91 and 94 from two gas stations this week) my car logged timing pull of anywhere from 2-3 degrees early on to 5-6 in the mid-high RPMs and peaking at 9 degrees up near redline in one cylinder. On 100 octane (15 litres of 93 + 10 litres of 110) I found that the timing being pulled was greatly reduced…only pulling around 1-3 degrees even at redline. So race gas sure helps fight the heat a little bit for us…or whatever else is causing timing to be pulled at this point. It should be noted that 1-3 degrees pulled is what I found when I would log in the winter. My 4000-8000 RPM range was about 20 RPM/second faster on 100 octane vs. 93. For those who log a lot, you’ll know that’s a nice little pickup. Not groundbreaking, but enough to notice.

Jnaut wanted me to log that, so I did it for him.

The dragstrip results showed what we expected out of our cars, and Mistro’s car in particular. He dyno’d recently and put down a very solid 330 WHP or thereabouts. At the same dyno day a JHM tuned B7 S4 put down around 290 WHP and 295 WTQ. So his RS4 is doing well. Second of all, he and I did a 3rd gear pull with equal weight in the cars about 6 months ago, and we were near identical…and my car had just run 12.9 @ 107 so we know it was strong. My car later set the stock RS4 record with a run of 12.75 @ 108.3 in the spring, still bone stock (as it is now). Bottom line? His car is a good one with no weird performance problems. It has about 55,000 miles and has NEVER been carbon cleaned. Interesting huh?

So, we lined up a few times and produced some decent timeslips. My best of the day was a 12.92 @ 108.0 MPH with a 1.83 60 foot. That was my 1st run of the day…so that helps show the effect of heat etc. I really need JHM intake spacers. I went in my B7 S4 a few times and when it was warm, it didn’t see performance degradation as easily as my RS4 does on warm days. Anyway, I had a few good launches but as the day wore on, the car just couldn’t cool down and it got to the point where it would run 13.05-13.10 @ 106.5-107.5 over and over…just no faster. Unfortunately I didn’t get to run on race gas other than one pass immediately after logging the car and it was hot as shit. It was a 13.10 @ 106.something. I didn’t care, since I knew we were in the meat of the shitty DA by this time with the temp up around 80 or so.

Mistro’s car is a very nice black RS4 (not sure if Phantom or Brilliant). It is bone stock other than the ECS tuning H-pipe which does nothing for power but makes the car sound a little nicer. We did a video comparo as well, so I will get that added to the thread eventually. Mistro’s driving is solid and his RS4 driving has improved dramatically since we made a film of us all launching a few months back. he had just bought the car and had never launched it at that point. Today, he was ripping through gears and launching like a champ, cutting multiple 1.8 second sixty foot times despite the less than stellar conditions. It was his first time EVER at the dragstrip…so this was an impressive showing. Mistro’s best of the day was a 13.06 @ 107.6 MPH. That’s strong for a stock car on a hot day, and again I think this drives a stake through the heart of the carbon being a massive detriment to these cars. He was within 0.14 seconds of my car, and my car has the stock RS4 record. He was within 0.4 MPH as well. While he may have a bit more carbon than me, I don’t think it’s too bad. If carbon is really costing he and I about 20-40 whp as everyone claims, that would mean we’d both be good to go a couple of tenths quicker with a clean. We’ll see about that after he gets a clean done.

I also ran the pbox all day. Found out that the dragstrip at Cayuga is pretty flat. It’s downhill 9 feet from start to finish, so 0.6% downhill. Not bad. The pbox is also really accurate, reflecting the 1/4 times quite close to the timing equipment at the strip. Only off by maybe a tenth (usually less than a tenth) although MPH was off by 0.2-0.3 mph usually. Pretty cool to know.

I have some video that I will add. For now here is a pic we snapped while having a picnic together on a blanket in that field. Just kidding. We didn’t have a blanket.


http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/712631221.jpg

Nothing to say but good stuff! Enjoyable read with some real world data. except why weren’t you bracket racing lol??

I think its got to be that, keep the torques curve predictable.

Nice writeup. LOL at the picnic

Here are our two best timeslips

On the 13.06 run by Mistro, I was the car in the right lane. It was our second run of the day. I launched well, drove well, and finished well. My pbox, which was accurate all day, said I ran 13.0 @ 107. For some reason, the timeslip said I had a 2.6 60 foot? Not sure what went wrong, maybe something got funky in staging. My ‘reaction time’ which I never pay attention to, showed 0.01 seconds which was interesting. I’ve never done that (nor tried) before.

For perspective, here are all of my times, in chronological order. That second one stands out like a sore thumb.
12.92@108.0 (Mistro 13.26@105.8 in the right lane)
13.67@106.6 (Mistro 13.06 @ 107.6 in the left lane)
13.14@107.39 (solo)
13.05@106.99 (Mistro 13.22@104.9 in the right lane)
13.10@106.53 (Trans Am 13.00 @111.2 in the right lane)
13.36@105.84 (some fast as hell mustang 11.53 @ 82.47 in the right lane)
13.11@105.75 (bone stock sunfire 17.09@68 in the left lane)

In any event, here are our bestys. Mistro’s best is the left timeslip (my second pass with the weird ETs). Mine is on the right (and that was Mistro’s first ever pass at the dragstrip).

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/sakimano/Cayuga08182012-4.jpg

lol what happened to the mustang’s mph?

Great info and times saki. Looking forward to the video.

he shut it down BEFORE the 1/8th. Car was retarded. I’ll find the timeslip and post it up. He was around 105 MPH at the 1/8th and he was already slowing down. Coasting for half the track, he still beat me by 15 car lengths lol.

Was pretty fun. A bit annoyed I couldn’t break into the 12s but hopefully I will on my next time out.

Here’s my 13.06 run. I had to correct to the right a bit half way down the track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbDakkR6mPU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Nice, I forgot you had a dashcam.

As you can see I launched well so that 2.6 sixty foot time on the slip is bogus. That’s annoying. Wonder what the time should have actually been.

Good runs guys! I sense a 100 octane fall day for Saki to beat his 12.75… :stuck_out_tongue:

yeah, seriously. Man this car REALLY hates the heat though. EVen though I ran 12.92…once it got heat soaked later in the day there was really no point in running anymore. It was just not going to produce a good result. The day I went 12.75 in April was around 55-65 degrees, and the car actually got faster as the day went on and it warmed up a little (traction I guess)

I had 40 lbs too much gas in the tank…had about 20lbs of extra stuff in the car that I would normally take out…had my laptop and pbox and a bunch of shit because frankly I didn’t care about my times…I was just there to help Mistro…so I’m sure I left a bit on the table.

I am really looking forawrd to getting a bunch of guys together and going to the strip in October or late September on a nice cool dense day. It’s fun being there in a good sized group.

bangoman
boraVR6
jspazz
81beers (that’s his new name)
mistro

anyone else?

Should be fun. The car’s in for carbon cleaning and intake spacers now so it’ll be interesting to get some before and after runs.

Is the exhaust video gonna be up soon? :slight_smile:

I’m having trouble with my computers to be honest

computer 1 = unable to handle the HD video that comes out of the dSLR
computer 2 = able to handle the video, but has software I’ve never used before (Final Cut Pro)

I’ll get it sorted shortly.

Duh! I’ll be there for sure! :slight_smile:

Just got the exhaust video done. A few comparison clips between the two cars

Avus Silver - bone stock downpipes and catback; S mode button ‘on’
Phantom Black - stock downpipes, stock catback with ECS H-pipe resonator delete section welded in; S mode button ‘on’

http://youtu.be/fjdlEU483no

When we go back to the strip in the fall, we’ll make a day of it and include a bunch of folks. My friend in his stock MT trans B8 S4 might come. Another local guy with a stock DSG B8 S4 may also come. Two other friends with E92 M3s might also come…and another friend with a CTS-V wagon. So we might have a really interesting group of cars.

Nice.

I also sealed off the vacuum lines controlling the exhaust flaps so they’re always open. I hated how they still close at low rpms.

At the same time, I wish I had a way to control them still since its a tad too loud for my taste on cold starts in the mornings. My neighbour across the street probably hates me for cranking it on at 4am.

I wonder if any of the tuners could do something where s button = always open flaps…

copied from the other thread…

So we went back to the dragstrip last night to re-test Mistro’s car after a carbon clean.

To re-cap, when we went 10 days ago, in DA of around 1200 or so feet when we got there (2000 when we left). Fastest runs were our first couple.

Mistro 13.06 @ 107.6 - stock tune, stock downpipes, stock catback with ECS Hpipe welded in (sound only), 55,000 miles and never carbon cleaned
sakimano 12.92 @ 108.0 - stock everything, 40,000 miles and never carbon cleaned

It was Mistro’s first time at the strip but he did very well, driving very consistently all day. The delta between us was only 1 tenth and 0.4 MPH. We know that my car ran 12.75 @ 108.3 in DA of 281 feet in April, so we can assume Mistro will be into the 12s if he were to run in great conditions like I had back then.

Last week Mistro had a carbon cleaning done. His buildup was pretty typically bad. Not horrendous, and certainly not clean. Standard stuff for a 50,000 mile car really. He also had JHM intake spacers installed which are not a power modification, but more a power preservation modification to limit heat transfer from the block to the intake manifold (and hopefully to help intake air temps…real IAT, not logged IAT!)

Our times last night were interesting. Density altitude was again in the 1200 feet range most of the night. I cracked off a 12.89 @ 108.0, which was basically what I ran last time (within 3 hundredths). That was at 9pm when the DA was 1059 feet Mistro on the other hand…I was a bit worried my RS4 record was in jeopardy. His first couple of runs his transmission wasn’t so cooperative going into 2nd so he had a couple of slow ones. His best run of the day though?

13.0 @ 107.7 (or something). Basically exactly what he was before!

So even though the intake spacers snuck their way in there, this was a pretty simple test, clean, test…and it has to be said the results are not ideal for those who decry the carbon as a plague that hurts the RS4’s value.

Here’s my timeslip. This was against 81bear…a B8 S4 with the following mods

APR stage 2 version 2 93 tune
APR pulley
Strat Intake
034 High Flow Cats
Milltek Catback
APR coolant performance system
18 lb LW wheels

Another myth debunked here lol. Don’t show auditude…he’s convinced a tuned B8 S4 will put 20 car lengths on a stock RS4…nevermind a B8 S4 with $8,000+ in mods! 81’s went a little over a a tenth quicker on an earlier run I believe.

DA calculator for this run (9pm EST)

http://www.dragtimes.com/da-density-altitude-calculator.php?temperature=62.6&rh=77&altset=30.05&elevation=630&track=190&month=8&day=29&year=2012&time=9:00 PM

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/sakimano/C360_2012-08-30-09-05-36-1.jpg

My excuse list follows ;D:

2nd and 3rd were really hard to get into for some reason so my shifts were paiiiiiinfully slow. Gonna try changing the fluid since it’s still pretty stiffer than usual between gears. Hopefully it’s not the synchro’s. The clutch was also really slow coming back up so for a few of the runs I ended up painfully slipping the clutch for the 2-3 shifts even though my foot was completely off.

Weight wise, last time I went I had barely any gas in the car when I did my runs. This time I had a little over half a tank (Didn’t plan it out… just filled up when gas got cheap). Everything else was pretty much the same.

My trap speeds were better this time around, but my 1/4 times were relatively crappy. I was really hoping to breaking into the 12s.

I’ll try getting the dashcam footage out tonight to see just how slow the shifts were for each of the runs.

13.112 @ 107.39
13.138 @ 108.21
13.196 @ 108.22

And one that came out with no time or trap… (which “of course” was going to my best run of the day ::slight_smile: )

http://i.imgur.com/cTjrZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HLn5r.jpg

According to my calculator, that run with no trap/ET at the 1/4 would have been around 13.08 @ 107.5

Looking at the ratios (330/1320…660/1320 etc) it looks like the carbon clean did…nothing. The ratios are all the same as they were before. I was hoping to see you pick up some time in the big end of the track. You trap speeds were up a bit vs. 2 weeks ago. So were mine…I trapped 108.3 a couple of times last night on my two 12.97 runs.

One thing I found interesting about your runs is that the ‘second’ of each pair (i.e. after a cool down, you ran once, then twice) was the same or faster in both instances. My second and third runs in my bunches were ALWAYS slower. I wonder if the intake spacers are just helping you preserve what you had going.

You have any more timeslips? That was one thing I wanted to review.

Interesting test. What I want to know now is why we see differences on the dynos with carbon cleaning. Do you have any ideas on that? Because that to me is the most intriguing part