DSG slow on kick down

B8 S4
#1

Cruising along with vehicle is in 4th gear…punch accelerator to go WOT…DSG downshifts to 2nd gear, but a rather significant delay occurs. Revs tach up to around 5500-6k BEFORE 2nd gear catches to move the vehicle forward.

I think the delay is a bit longer when in “D” vs. “S” or “M”…but not certain. If it is quicker in S or M…it’s slight.

Taking off from a stand still…NO delay. Also, when in manual mode while in 2nd gear and go WOT…no delay. If I’m in 3rd gear and trans kicks down to 2nd…there’s a delay but not nearly as bad as going from 4th to 2nd. I’m talking a full 1-1.5 seconds…maybe even as much as 2 seconds. A definite delay that’s not normal.

My question: Could this be fluid related…time for DSG service? Or, does the transmission need to go through re-calibration/adaptation to restore gear bite points…if that’s even possible?

A little about the vehicle:
2010, 104k miles, last DSG service @ 65k miles, Stage II APR (pulley, intake, tune, exhaust, cooling)

Thanks for any thoughts!

#2

It should be faster when the car is in “S” mode as well as Dynamic mode.

Keep in mind that if the car has to drop to a gear on the same clutch (even gear --> even gear - say 4th to 2nd; odd gear --> odd gear - say 3rd to 1st), it will be slower.

#3

Take foot off gas and manually change down 2 gears, much faster. Anytime your foot is on the throttle and you downshift it will so a slow smooth engage to maintain speed and momentum. If your foot is off accelerator it will snap down a gear quickly.

#4

Took a 2015 S4 stock DSG out today. Interesting how the stock S4 deals with the kick down from 4th or 5th gear when punching to go WOT. Almost feels like timing is pulled while the tranny is downshifting and then timing advances and car begins pulling.
All in all, the stock 2015 trans makes the kick down happen faster than my 2010 with stage 2 tune (no trans tune).

So, yes…there is a delay on the stock system…but, mine feels exaggerated.

I did try driving in S mode auto and allowed the trans to get to 5th gear and then grabbed the paddle to downshift and quickly brought it down a couple of gears and went WOT. Definitely faster doing it that way…even though I was grabbing 3rd gear with the paddle…the auto kick down was bringing it to 2nd gear. The kick down from 3rd to 2nd happens beautifully.

One more test while in S mode auto…when going to WOT…I rolled part throttle and then punched to hit the kick down. Seemed much better than just stabbing the throttle immediately to the kick down point.

Thanks for the heads up with this guys. Still feel like there’s something that should allow for snappier shifts while in auto mode! The lack of pinning you back in the seat is weird for such an otherwise very powerful setup. Similar output numbers on my friends 2011 M3…his transmission/engine pins you to the seat when it kicks down. The S4 just feels a bit sloppy in comparison.

Oh, my car doesn’t have Drive Select…so, I only have the gear shifter to select D, S or manual mode.

#5

Could it also be traction control kicking in causing the delay? I bet a coke it is.

#6

sakimano…I don’t think so?! While driving…I press and hold the ESP button which shows it’s disabled and after 5 seconds, get the code that ASR is disabled.

Is there something else I need to do?

#7

My car isn’t a DSG but I can share what I have seen. The DSG still has the same shift needs and still is a hydraulic system.

I noticed something like what your talking about a long time ago when I was around 50 on the stock fluid. I changed the fluid and noticed the trans behavior got better. Still the transmission is skipping a gear on the down shift. So it has to go from 4th then pass third and then engagement happens in second. About the most you will ever see the car downshift is 2 gears at a time when going WOT. You might see the car every now and then go fro. 6th to 3rd but that isn’t even often.

Anyways the DSG transmission has the next gear ahead and behind always ready for the shift the gears 2 gears back are not ready like the closer gears so down shifting over 2 gears at WOT will require a bigger delay of converter lock up. Do the test over another siuation that requires the car to skip a gear on the down shift and see if that has a similar delay.

My delay got better when I changed my fluid and filter. The fluid is the major part on helping the car shift quickly. The next thing that helped remove the delay was the JHM transmission tune for the tip tonic transmission. I know GIAC has a DSG transmission tune that should also help fix some of the tq reduction stuff on downshifting.

You can always open up the vagcom clear codes in the DSG computer and see if that helps as something to start with.

#8

"My delay got better when I changed my fluid and filter. The fluid is the major part on helping the car shift quickly. The next thing that helped remove the delay was the JHM transmission tune for the tip tonic transmission. I know GIAC has a DSG transmission tune that should also help fix some of the tq reduction stuff on downshifting.

You can always open up the vagcom clear codes in the DSG computer and see if that helps as something to start with."

Thanks justincredible! This is a good suggestion. I think my last DSG service was @ 65k miles…so, now with 104k miles, it’s time. I think the scheduled service is 40k miles.
Spoke with one of the Audi Techs and they suggested a recalibration with test drive. They had an RS5 that was experiencing too much delay on the downshifts. Evidently, the adaptation or recalibration helped the cause.

I’ve got to get the vag com cable! I suspect you’re right about needing to clear out fault codes!

As for tunes, can I mix and match GIAC DSG tune with my APR Stage 2 tune? For the life of me, I can’t figure out why APR has yet to offer this!

Thanks again for your thoughts.

#9

You should definitely service that DSG! VCDS cable is worth it’s weight in gold.

I doubt GIAC or REVO will sell you just a DSG tune with the APR ECM tune. APR claims to be on it, but the previous car used for DSG development was an employee’s, who has since left the company (Arin mentioned this on AZ). He claimed they bought a new car for development, but who really knows. APR’s ROI for the DSG tune will be pretty high though, especially amongst facelift cars, who have reduced redlines.

#10

Thanks drob23.

First order of business…get vagcom cable!!! Then, service dsg, clear codes…do adaptation with test drive. If it’s still not as crisp as it should be…see if I can get an eta for APR’s dsg tune. ;D

I’ll update as I move forward. I’m guessing anyone with a dsg will eventually deal with this issue of sloppiness.

#11

I am changing my fluid in 2 weeks along with both filters!

I will update if I notice any improvements.

#12

Right after they stop losing all of the engineering guys who figure this stuff out. Or once they steal it from someone.

#13

Did you ever figure out the launch control reset?

#14

Nothing yet, might be starting the year using the sidestep method! Which isn’t bad and has proven solid times! My best and most consistent 60’s were done using LC however.

#15

Damn sucks that they really require a complete new mech unit. Does the sidestep method still work no problem? I was reading somewhere that the LC counter takes more than formally using LC. Like it somehow detects the sidestep method and uses it against you. I should check my counter, because I’ve probably used LC like 5 times, but the quick launch method a lot.

#16

Ring it out I would like to hear how the change of fluid goes that should be able to fix it or atleast make it better. Try resetting the DSG computer after you do the fluid.

Is there a thread on this. The counter should be set in the ecu. That’s what I remember being told for the R32 and the golf cars with DSG.

#17

I will report back if I notice anything. Going to figure out steps for resetting transmission adaptations. As for now we are dead in water when it comes to launch control reset without new mech unit. My trans is still performing well, slight hiccups on 2-3 shift. The counter is set in the TCU I posted a picture of it in a thread somewhere, let me find it.

Found it, lol didn’t take long.

http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=2954.0

#18

Over on AZ there is this one talking about the LC apparently not requiring the formal actuation to “count” as a launch…
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/613219-Launch-Control-Counter?highlight=Launch+control+counter

#19

Seeing this makes this even worse. But it could be a good thing. If you know how it triggers the counter you might be able to fool the counter.

#20

justincredible…sorry for the delayed response. Have had a death in the family. As soon as I have a chance to get the service completed, I’ll definitely update with my findings.