Dyno Log..opinions welcomed

B6/7 S4/RS4
#21

When I say intake I don’t mean Intake manifold. The spacers will help the intake manifold.

The intake as for the air box or air intake. I would have to see a picture of your intake to be able to say more. But the stock air box so far has shown to be much better then aftermarket open element ideas. Your stock air box is pressurized this helps push air into the motor open element units are not. They are low pressure. If you have a turbo or supercharged car open element is ok

If you believe your intake is better then the air box help explain to me why… I can explain why your stock air box is better then most of not all aftermarket intakes. Help explain to me what makes it better. Take a picture I think that would 've helpful

#22

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
It is as Sakimano showed in the pics above, apart from teh fact that I had a custom built “bottom” for the intake that is “attached” to the CAF hose.

I will take some pics tomorrow and post for your review.

Thanks for the info.

#23

I must have done something wrong non of the pictures worked for me.

#24

Possibly something to consider when it comes to the need of an aftermarket intake system. APR made 500whp on their supercharged RS4 they still used the stock airbox.

#25

Are they able to tell you what a normal base run for a stock RS4 runs on the dyno?
When you take into consideration the following points it’s not that difficult to see why the lower than expected numbers.
Assuming they are low but without a base line it’s hard to tell.
• High ambient temps, your car strapped to a dyno, in a room with no air flow between runs, so heat soaking everything
• A CAI (yes you have a shield, but it will never work as well as the enclosed airbox) again heat soak will be an issue
• low octane fuel, really should be running 98 where ever possible
• A fan providing the only means of airflow during a pull which never provides the same amount of air compared to a road pull
• No mapping to take advantage of the exhaust mods, and deleted intake flaps.

I have logs from when I was road tuning my Subaru sti in Australia of the difference in air intake temps comparing a shielded CAI vrs the oem airbox.
The intake temps measured at the maf went up with the cai towards the end of the run, but went down by the end of the run when the airbox was fitted. It was around 4-5 deg c, so a noticable change.

It would be interesting to see the difference of a log done on the road pre JHM tune and after.

#26

Just saw the thread on rs246

Those guys are clueless. Neilparf especially. They think you’re down on power because you have piggies and no mrc tune lol. They are wrong.


http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/sakimano/Screenshot_2014-08-19-19-55-03_zpsiqsxydpm.png

#27

Do these guys just make stuff up as they go. That’s not even close to how the system works. Let’s pretend that for a second that’s how it worked. If you don’t have the cats the 02s would see lower estimated exhaust temperature and performance would increase. Those guys are so brainwashed and it’s obvious they don’t actually understand how the system works.

I ca. Understand they don’t know how things work because all they worry about is dyno figures and not actual acceleration. Every car tested with no cats or like saki with high flow cats picks up acceleration not looses it.

#28

Nick, I can only nicely say take what was told to you on rs246 as sorta true. The lambda correction, every car corrects. Stock, modified, super modified they will be adjusting, sometimes more then others. Before you did anything or changed anything on the car it was correcting. Did your car correct more because you removed the PreCats? No. Do you need to get tuned now because you removed your Precats? No. Not unless you want to remove the CEL associated for no cat. I don’t know what they tell people over there but it seems people might have been lied to, possibly in an attempt to make them believe they need a tune.

The timing pull with change per environment and conditions, it might actually pull more in colder weather.

55C = 131F Man put back in your stock air box.

The dyno numbers and acceleration numbers considering the temperature you’re listing, is about right. Also considering the temperature you’re experiencing I would highly suggest finding the highest octane possible. Good fuel helps pull heat on each combustion cycle, as well as helping the motor run safer in any condition

#29

Guys again thank you all for the valid comments.

As many of you have said, what has been written on rs246 is sorta true. I agree with teh fact that as per mmy limited knowledge that is not how the system works. The fact though that I don’t quite agree with them, does not mean that it is impossible to hear a good idea. In any case, I agree that definately the intake has lots to do with any underperformance. I knwo that for a fact. Taking this into consideration, I just wanted to read to what CV said…that under these conditions, this is what the car would normally do. I know the car has always been correcting. I have old logs totally stock, with even lower hp at a similar dyno. It has alwasy ben correcting.
Perhaps and this a question to the tech savvy people, the pre-cats and everything have been removed about 500km ago. I am potentially wrongfully aware that it needs some time before the ECU adapts to the new readings. Could it be that 500km are not enough? I am saying this because this mornign the car “felt” a bit better and while in the last days the 3k-8k test run at 9.5avg on similar conditions, this mroning with 1/3 of tank, it run around 9.1 average.

As far as my intake is concerned please allow me to explain that it “resembles” the OEM Airbox in its construction (albeit unknown in its performance). I installed the intake and i custom built a bottm part that actually “snaps” at the bottom part of the aftermarket intake. So the bottom part is not open almost at all. Tjhe air is directed there by the CAF and the side and front intakes.

I agree the heatshielding is not a final fix, but given the local conditions thought it would be better than nothing as a mere remedy.

I intend to do some logs tonight with lower ambeint temps and 1/4 tank of 95 Octane and 3/4 tank of BP 100 Octane.

Then I will put on the OEM Airbox, but I will delete the airbox flap. I want to have constant flow.

Do some logs on similar conditions.

By that time the JHM cable will have arrived and repeat the process with the tune.

#30

Have you got your log in details for JHM’s server to download the tune yet?
It’s a separate form that you need to fill in, it can take a few days to get setup.

#31

where’s the road logs?

#32

Your adding too many variables, don’t mix fuel. Try to keep things simple.

Get some good flat road runs on 93oct equivalent fuel that most of us run.

#33

Don’t get sidetracked. Your car might be perfectly fine, and you’re spinning your wheels (figuratively) trying to correct a problem that may not exist.

People are trying to help you. If you want to jump around and try 9 things and listen to 9 people you’re just going to go in circles.

Do this please. This is what JHM asks people to do when they have questions like yours. Let’s find out how your car is ACTUALLY doing, and go from there.

#34

Guys I truly appreciate the effort to help.

Apologies for not replying sooner as I have been a bit under water today.

I managed to do 4 pulls. General conditions were:

Ambeint termps: 28-29.5 Celcius
Oil Temp: 95 Celcius that went up to 105 Celcius
Elevation: 300 ft
Gas: Full tank (1/4 95 Octane, 3/4 100 Octane, Euro equivalents)
Cargo: two people around 150kgs total.

Unfortunatley in one of the two logs I forgot to press the Turbo button and I had to stop before the read line.
On a side note during the 2nd round, although the car went into redline, it was not recorded as RPMs on VCDS.

Generally speaking I was totally impressed by the fact that better gas decreased significnatly the timing pull. It seems the car is doiung 395hp based on calculations of actual torque (430Nm/5700 rpm).

Please see below the links.

1st two consecutive pulls

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7opa00inubzv5q/LOG-01-013-02E-03C-064-20F_1st.xlsx

2nd two consecutive pulls

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz1vyno07nfqexi/LOG-01-028-20F-1104-113E-1207_2nd.xlsx

One questin I have is about the non-linear and “jumpy” behaviour of the hp calcuations above 7400 rpms. Is it correct to assume that this happens when the car begins to pull time?

Thanks a lot in advacne for your guidance and input on the attached figures.

#35

Your sample rate on these logs sucks because you’re logging too much stuff. That’s another reason it’s so jumpy.

003
020

that will tell us the performance evaluation story.

Seperately, you can log engine torque alone with engine speed will tell you the hp story. It’s in advanced measuring values I believe.

that’s a good question. I am not sure why it gets jumpy. Could be? Here’s my car a year or two ago when it was stock, vs. Mistro who had a JHM tune + piggies (basically same as you will have). These are vagcom logs. My graph was really jumpy at the top end, his wasn’t. Could also have something to do with the stock tune holding the car back a little

Your torque at 430 nm is around 317 ft lb which is very solid.

http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=1695.0

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/sakimano/mydy_zps27a9ca70.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/sakimano/Mistro_zpsb838997f.jpg

#36

I see that our logs look quite similar. Mine was not that jumpy though…perhaps due to less timing?

I must say that the results are totally different and improved vs. the Dyno.

In all honesty, I am quite happy from the output and really looking forward to flashing the JHM tune.

Another thing that may have contributed to a better performance is the fact that about 30’ before the pulls i got my first CEL light as a resutl of the piggies. And as described in a rpevious post since yesterday the car started to feel gradually more responsive and “alive”.

Perhaps the ECU has begun to read the better flow adn adapted to it after some 600kms??

#37

the minute I put my exhaust and downpipes on it was faster. There wasn’t really an adaptation period.

I did performance testing the first week (and I don’t drive much) and noticed a significant improvement right away in the data. About 20-25 ft lbs/20-25 hp .

#38

Perhaps I am a bit of a non-sensitive cause I felt the car better, but that significnatly better when I first drove it.

Next thing for me would be to flash the JHM tune. Given we are approaching the winter, I thnk I will be keeping the revolution intake for at leat until spring and repalce it with the OEM box then.

Don;t feel rady for the hassle right now… after all I am thinking of a stage 1 supercharger.

Have you seen the numbers?

#39

Your average RPM/sec is about 500 from 2000-8000 and is about 525 from 3000-7500. That’s not great…still down about 10%.

Summer, and a hot air intake will account for a good part of that. i.e. if it’s 29 celsius (around 85 degrees F) you could be seeing 3000 feet of density altitude. That’s about 8-10% hp lost.

All in all looks decent. Lots of torque which is nice.

316.57792 ft lb /395.3491059 hp

pretty decent for shitty weather.

#40

That us what I am thinking. Decent for the prevailing conditions.
Should i look forward to 600 RPmM/sec?