Engine died

B6/7 S4/RS4
#1

Hopefully its not as bad as the title suggests… Coming home from a snowboarding trip this morning my engine died on the highway while cruising at about 70mph. I was half asleep, thinking about how shitty of a Monday it was going to be and then suddenly the car lost all power. I IMMEDIATELY pushed in the clutch, put it in neutral and the engine shut down instantly. All the electronics were still on. There was no CEL, odd noises or basically (further explanation to come) any warning prior to this happening. Luckily there was an exit 500 feet away that I was able to coast down and find a safe-ish place to pull over. Checked everything out under the hood and all seemed normal. Towed it back to my shop, scanned it and here’s what came up…

Readiness: 0000 0001
Monday,06,January,2014,12:54:14:42923
VCDS Version: Release 11.11.6 (x64)
Data version: 20121223
Kelsey’s Auto Body Inc.

            Address 01: Engine       Labels: 079-910-560-BBK.lbl

Control Module Part Number: 8E2 910 560 C HW: 8E2 907 560
Component and/or Version: 4.7L LC/93+JHM G 0010
Software Coding: 0007711
Work Shop Code: WSC 06325 000 00000
VCID: 275706F2964ABF20411
1 Fault Found:

000802 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P0322 - 004 - No Signal
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 139969 km
Time Indication: 0

         Freeze Frame:
                RPM: 0 /min
                Load: 0.0 %
                Speed: 105.0 km/h
                Temperature: 96.0°C
                Temperature: 15.0°C
                Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                Voltage: 13.716 V

Readiness: 0000 0001

On my way up north I noticed while cruising the tach was bouncing a little bit but actual RPM’s were not fluctuating. Didn’t think much of it. The other minor problem I have been having is a intermittent skip and hesitation while under medium acceleration around 3-4k rpm’s. When it happens it is very noticeable and there is an audible pop in the exhaust note. Anyone have this sensor go bad before? It’s only a $125 sensor but am wondering if something else could be wrong and if I should do any further diagnosis before ordering it.

#2

I’ve seen that code some up on a scan before and it was nothing…
the freeze frames says it happened when the car wasn’t even running, but the car was still moving?

Don’t take this the wrong way, but Slow4 ran out of gas a few months ago (gas gauge was off)…maybe it will be something “stupid”

If no dreaded timing faults came up I would personally.

  1. Try and start it and see if it fires
  2. Make sure I’m getting fuel (clogged filter, fuel pump finally took a shit, gas gauge is screwed)

I guess after that I would start sensor hunting…

#3

Its 100% the speed sensor. The sensors can and obviously do go bad. When that sensor goes bad the mtor has no way of knowing rpm so it has no way of knowing when to deliver spark and fuel.

This can also be why you had issues in the past.

#4

Sensor - I had mine fail on this car and previous cars.

#5

Sorry, I need to go back and see what code I had that showed up a few times. I could have swore it was something that popped up on one of my scans, but it never caused the car to stop running…maybe it was just an intermittent signal failure.

#6

Speed sensor vs engine died…hmm.

Need a new thread title hopefully!

#7

I did try to start it after I scanned it. Sounded normal cranking over but did not fire. Cleared the code and tried again but nothing. Code came right back up. The motor didn’t sputter before dying and there were no fueling codes so I never really thought that could be the problem.

That makes a lot of sense. I saw the sensor is located under the coolant reservoir near the back of the engine. This should be a simple install right?

#8

Need a catchy thread title so people read it!

#9

Is it the sensor right on top of the bell housing that reads engine speed off the flywheel? If so I don’t think it will be too hard to get out. It should only have one bolt (Hex key head I believe). I ruined mine putting my transmission back in, don’t ask, ordered a new one from rock auto. I think your best bet would be to attack from the bottom.

For reference, probably a lot easier with catless DPs

https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/0/AACSik5KyrjTlNWSuRXvEq6O2ZonnOPHUnvs3meQ1pFl0Q/12/92800314/png/1024x768/3/1389110400/0/2/Photo%20Jan%2007%2C%209%2022%2008%20AM.png/wN4NQjhGPK-DGYvhpMrRRdgf9AEVROt1cbiN5itNX64

#10

I haven’t got a chance to actually look at the sensor on the car but it reading off the flywheel would be my guess. This is the picture from alldata of the connector. #3

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/jimmys4/S4/speedsensor_zpsf42832b9.gif

#11

That is definitely it then, if I had paint I could show you right where it is…hold on

#12

After pulling the left axel shield the sensor was in plain view and there was easy access from under the car.

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/jimmys4/S4/DSCF3579_zps2a06ce36.jpg

Sensor came right out but looked like this…

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/jimmys4/S4/DSCF3582_zpsd5e5695a.jpg

Should I be worried about the end of the sensor that is floating around in the bell housing? Or just put in the new sensor and hope for the best?

#13

The piece of the sensor would probably just fall out of the holes in the bottom of the bell housing. I wonder why it would be ripped open like that? Maybe the plastic deteriorated and the magnet pulled through the plastic and hit the flywheel ripping it out. That is what mine looked like after I replaced my tranny and sheared the bottom of the sensor, lol.

#14

It looks like the end kind of just disintegrated. Maybe the heat from the down pipe is part of the problem? But the outside of the sensor looked fine… idk. I got hungry and had already been at the shop for 12 hours so the new sensor is going in tomorrow.

#15

I checked with my mechanic this morning and he had never seen a sensor get sheered off like this unless something had impacted it. I cut a rubber hood bumper to the same depth of the sensor, put it in the hole and had someone crank the engine over. Sure enough every revolution something was impacting the plug. Fuck. I got a mirror and looked down the sensor hole. It looks like the crank position ring (right term?) has possibly come apart. Some places it is boxed, some places the top part of the box is missing and some it is not there at all… Does anyone have a top view picture of a JHM flywheel that I could compare the ring to? I’m guessing the ring is suppose to be the same all the way around the flywheel.

Top part missing and looks like it had been hitting the sensor.

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/jimmys4/DSCF3585_zps9bdf6bf5.jpg

Boxed

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/jimmys4/DSCF3594_zps5d83c0a0.jpg

Not there at all

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/jimmys4/DSCF3583_zpsa2836706.jpg

#16

UPDATE:

First off the thread title should probably be changed. To what, idk but there is nothing wrong internally with my engine. Phew…

After talking to JHM and my mechanic it was obvious the flywheel and tranny needed to be pulled. I decided to tackle the job because this was one of the few things I haven’t done myself on this car. Work/life got busy so besides for 20 minutes here and there the car sat on the lift for a couple weeks. This was my first time pulling any transmission but besides for a couple hard to reach bolts and busted knuckles it wasn’t too bad. If I had to do this again I bet it would take me half the time.

Once apart it was pretty obvious what happened. About a third of the crank position ring came off the flywheel impacting and obliterating the RPM sensor. Judging by the gouges in the bell housing and flywheel, and number of pieces it broke up into it definitely flew around for a few revolutions before I got a chance to put the clutch in. Luckily the pressure plate and clutch looked okay. I’m not an expert but the damage to inside the bell housing looks to be mostly cosmetic. It’s going to need a good blow job to get all the sensor and ring particles out but with a new throw out bearing I’m not going to worry about it too much.

I’ve been in contact with Jake at JHM (who has been great to deal with) and once I send back the old flywheel I should be getting a refund for the part. If I were paying for someone to do this job I might be looking for them to cover the labor cost but sense I’m willing and able to do it myself I’m no looking for that. I’d rather their money go back into this platform… or maybe cut me a break when I go built motor in a year or so…

I guess my main concern is why this ended up happening in the first place. Any ideas? My theory is that the ring wasn’t perfectly round/ attached to the flywheel correctly, ended up warping and when it impacted the sensor it came apart. But I never felt any vibration or anything like that prior to the failure. Idk, but I’m curious to hear what people think.

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/jimmys4/S4/IMG_1734-1600_zps988ac1b1.jpg

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/jimmys4/S4/IMG_1739-1600_zps62e94da5.jpg

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/jimmys4/S4/IMG_1726-1600_zps3f6e8e5b.jpg

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/jimmys4/S4/IMG_1730-1600_zps23dc4dfd.jpg

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/jimmys4/S4/IMG_1731-1600_zps3b3fc5c8.jpg

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/jimmys4/S4/IMG_1729-1600_zpsa3ea81e2.jpg

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/jimmys4/S4/IMG_1725-1600_zps37b94aee.jpg

#17

Very interesting. There isn’t much clearance between the sensor ring and the sensor so it is possible that portion was warped and it hit.

#18

Hmmm interesting stuff, thanks for sharing. Good to hear the part will be covered under warranty. Will you be doing the built motor pull/install yourself?

#19

Not much clearance at all. IIRC its just a few hundredths of an inch.

That’s still a ways down the road. I’m undecided if my next purchase will be an RS4 or go the built motor route. If a totaled RS4 comes around that I can get my hands on that would be my first choice. If I do go built motor with the S4 I plan on pulling and installing the motor and supercharger myself.

#20

Who doesn’t? Just saying.

But in all reality, this failure does bother me. There are a lot of JHM flywheel owners out there, and this appears to be a very isolated incident, but I surely hope this is just the one part in a manufacturing process that happens to fail under normal use (or was it normal use?), and not a manufacturing problem. I want to own one myself before too long [:)]