And we were so worried about REVO. This poor fella takes his 6MT APR Stage 2 3.0TFSI out on track and it blows up in Turn 11. I’m going to need the whole team to report in on this thread so we can do an Internet postmortem.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/642659-Blown-Engine-at-Summit-Point-today-(3-22-15)
Dsg or manual?
If manual, I can all but guaranteed he money shifted.
yeah there’s a lot of banter in the AZ thread that’d ‘he’s an experienced driver, he’d know if he money shifted’… though that neglects the fact that no one is going to want to admit they money shifted lol
I doubt it had anything to do with the tune. Money shift, oil starvation, material defect, etc. We will probably never know though.
As time goes on it will be interesting to see more about what happened and why
The tune is about as not guilty as Robert Durst. He was there with oil all over his hands and he admitted to disposing of the motor, he just said he’s not the one who made it go boom.
Let’s consider the risk mitigation factors:
If you guys have any others to add to the list, I’d like to hear about them and do them. I feel pretty safe inside of these guidelines.
here’s one…
change gear from the redline in 3rd to 4th gear, not 2nd
That’s the most important one.
p.s. add another blown engine at a track day to the list. Really destroys the whole ‘the dragstrip is harder on your car than the road course’ argument the road course superstars make when they avoid the dragstrip because they’re scared to run shit times.
Right so the advice is: don’t install the short shifter on the shortest setting. You can’t fuck up the OEM throws and miss 4th, unless you’re using your entire forearm/bicep/shoulder to muscle the gear. It’s a pretty simple wrist flick motion.
So how does this all align with how APR ran their B8 S4 race car? Wouldn’t they have pushed the oil pan situation to the limit? Or AWE with their track car into SCCA finals. Or the countless people on the boards who push these cars extremely hard on 275 hoosiers?
Seems a little illogical that people would assume this failure occurred under normal track driving conditions.
I think it’s pretty easy to slot it into 2nd from 3rd when the car isn’t tracking straight. Your perspective gets skewed. You’re also much stronger pulling towards you than pushing away to the right, so the 3-2 over-rev is pretty common. You never really hear about someone complaining they lost a race because they put it in 6th instead of 4th.
It seems to happen most often at track days and on ramps. Rarely happens when you’re going straight, although I once almost did it on my B7 S4 while going straight. I slammed it into 2nd, started to release the clutch and knew what I’d done in a split second and stopped before properly releasing it. It’s amazing how quickly you can react to stuff. Just stuffed the clutch pedal into the floor instantly and it was fine. no over-rev code even.
APR’s race car likely ran an accusump or custom oil pan.
I’d be surprised to find a race car without either one of the above (if not both).
For example, the bimmerworld 328 race car (e90 one) ran with a custom oil pan. I had approached them for one, as I once considered an e90 328 some time ago. They wouldn’t sell me one (as it was a custom job), so I avoided straight 6 e90’s all together (they have no oil pan baffle at all).
Buuut this is why you either choose between short shifting, or banging the rev limiter mid corner.
In situations that call for shifting while the car is cornering, you generally should not shift. In a manual car, the shifting upsets weight transfer (suddenly off-throttle in a heavily loaded situation can be hairy).
I had an e90 325i with the N52 motor, that I modded the hell out of the suspension on (Ground Control makes awesome kits for BMW). Ultimately wanting a rear diff, supercharged power, and bigger wheels/tires sent me to the S4. It wasn’t worth it to sink the wheels/brakes cash into the 325i. I was super fast in that car, though. Took me years to become as fearless in the S4. It had amazing steering, weight balance, and a low weight to begin with (3250 with some fluids).
So how hard would it be to run an accusump? I’m not in anyway considering it, just curious lol. Looks like a passive device that requires tapping into the pressurized oil lines post pump? Speaking of which, how hard is it to outfit an oil pressure gauge? Does the car even have a sensor with continuous measuring capability, or more of a “pressure gone” type threshold sensor.
If the sensor exists, I wonder if it would be possible to grab oil pressure using one of those OBDII PID readers. I know the P3 has nothing like this, and getting them to add measurements is like waiting for pigs to fly.
Also if it exists - would be interesting to log using VCDS. Though I’m not a fan of dealing with VCDS while managing everything else before a run group.
So do we think it’s smart to run Redline 5w40 motorsports oil if this is a problem?
I only run that stuff. 5w50 sometimes, in fact.
Drop23 - you can run an oil pressure guage. It’s very easy, but requires tapping the oil filter area for the electronic sensor. Should not be a big deal if u can get a sandwich plate or something similar. Or tap the oil to water cooler area (or another sandwich plate there).
You can’t measure pressure off the OBD port, as the car doesn’t naitively monitor pressure. It’s basically a switch. You either have pressure or not.
Accusump is not a hard install. It’s just where to mount it and such. All custom, as obviously, very little people would ever run one in these cars.
Original post:
[quote]He was an instructor and races professionally from what I understand. It was a 2012 manual. He was tuned, think he said APR stage 2, everything else stock. The whole situation kinda freaked me out and made me not want to run anymore that day. Bummer all around, but for him especially. Seemed to take it well. Guess, if you’re that serious about racing, it goes with the territory. But, it really is “pay to play”.
[/quote]
I’ve said repeatedly, if you’re going to run any tune (even stage 1) at an advanced intermediate level you have to have a CPS. Now we have some evidence it might not just be me wasting money on prophylactic mods and car repair bills. APR runs their motors hot. This one went boom.
I’ll go ahead and assume you have datalogs showing a good amount of knock on an APR tuned car while it was running a road course.
Wow,if this was “REVO blows a motor” would be instant judgement and condemnation…APR involved=crickets…
The hypocrisy.