Fleabay headers, Part Deux

B6/7 S4/RS4
#21

Justinincredible,
You post the same thing in every post about this topic between here and Audizine… I have read every post available between the two primary sites for our community related to XS Headers and have yet to see performance fact or actual information/install pictures/video provided from someone that has first hand knowledge.

Everyone “Says” the same thing - I’ve not seen proof, yet.

This isn’t Factual information, it’s hearsay
“My best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it’s pretty serious.”

You took however long repeating the same thing you’ve repeated in every other post, but you’ve still not linked me to anything that has fact or additional details, you just keep singing the same “eff those guys” song.

I am not asking for your opinion, it’s absolutely clear from one end of the web to the other, how you feel about this topic. I am looking for facts that we can compile into a single thread and to contribute directly to those facts, that can be shown to the world so that there is no longer a question or speculation. I am hoping that with the Count posting his new “back from the dead” thread that this will help but I still am seeking facts.

So, bout them links…?

#22

There were a number of threads on it that many people saw, but they were mostly deleted. If you think it’s all hearsay then go ahead and use them.

#23

I get the feeling that people didn’t read the original post.

I am not asking what people think about these parts, I asked if people wanted a real review and saw real value to contribute knowledge to the community. I am not interesting in “using cheap headers on my car for the sake of using cheap headers”. I am fortunate enough to have a culmination of events that results in me getting these headers for nothing, having dyno time / having my motor out / exhaust shop to work with and all for cheap - so it would be fun to settle an argument and carve into space and time, a factual thread, about a knock-off product to help educate the users. One that can’t be closed / or delete by nefarious third parties.

I am trying to actively contribute to the community. Deleted threads and hearsay is not enough to stop this crap from infecting our community and to be honest I’m pretty surprised that you guys are still sharking around the “THEY ARE JUNK!!!” boat and not actually reading or responding to my original inquiry “Anyone have interest in learning the facts about this junk and sharing it with everyone to prove once and for all, what’s what”.

well, I’m not really surprised, having read all the threads already - it’s just pure blood in the water and you guys all seem to be so vociferous in regards.

I guess I wont waste my time or effort to better our community.

#24

I really don’t understand your angle at all? You say your not trying to defend the shit headers, yet you keep beating a dead horse… I can assure everyone who has responded to you is a long time member of this platform. So I don’t really understand why your trying to reprove something that’s already been proven to be nothing but a waste of time, and not in your case but to some, a waste of money. Seeing how your so adamant with proving the shit headers, then by all means none of are going to stop you. Please “prove us wrong” (Right), I’m looking forward to the results!!
P.s. good luck getting them to fit!

#25

If you want to give us proof then do it, but we want to see 1/4mile times too.

#26

My angle is Facts showing Proof. Not hearsay. This will allow for us, as a community, to defend against shitty products bringing down the platform.

I thought you guys would be foaming at the mouth to SHOW that these are not good headers, with facts… because to a novice, looking at the pictures, these are fine to use and look well made. Because they actually look like nicely made units. It’s the details that matter and the details are what I wanted to call out. Bringing ever more validity to JHM’s vast investment into product development and stating, once and for all, that you can’t just 'slap cheapo headers on your car and expect anything out of them".

and since no one can point to a fact thread, anytime a newb pops up and says “Ebay headers!?” you guys just eat them alive instead of just posting a link saying “We’ve proved they are shit - see the facts here: LINK”…

That’s my angle.

And I’ll wont post 1/4 times because I don’t drag race my car - dyno is the best it gets for showing ‘this vs. that’ in a 1:1 way but that should be more than enough to show whatever the result is for these units.

#27

Well good luck! I don’t know how many of us car reiterate to you that the threads that prove these as worthless junk have been deleted. Also 1/4 times will prove performance better than a dyno sheet. I’m sure the dyno numbers will prove that they are in fact shit, as they have been proven to be so in the past. But like I said before, I’m looking forward to your results!

#28

The problem is, they don’t look nicely made. Many of us who understand what it takes to make a header that actually works pointed out the flaws from the beginning.

Again man, do whatever you want, but I don’t think it’s worth your time and money. If others want to take on this venture despite the warnings, then so be it. I personally have given up on the AZ crowd. Currently a bunch of idiots are sticking up for a scammer in the RS4 section because turbos sound cool.

A dyno has it’s place, but it means nothing when it comes to real world acceleration testing. I get it though…Audis aren’t meant for drag racing ::slight_smile:

#29

May I ask how are you going to test these headers? You indicated you have a number of parts waiting to go on the car. If these are engine performance adders you will need to get a baseline 1 of 2 ways before the headers are installed.

  • Stock (or as your car sits) vs Headers installed
    or
  • All performance parts added vs Headers installed

You may already know this to perform a proper comparison, but it goes without saying that I’ve seen people do an all-in-one and say, “this product works!” without having an idea which adder did what.

Also, it may seem like the people on here are a bit touchy when it comes to the headers subject, but they really are passionate about helping others. I’ve seen a number of people coming over to this forum for help and there is always someone stepping in for support; there are a number of people here that are seasoned in this field.

I happened to witness the header debacle over on AZ and also seen the threads get wiped out of existence. It’s rather disappointing really, but none of that will happen on this forum. So if you really are set on doing this, by all means, go ahead. Just be sure to provide a well defined test method.

Lastly, if you happened to read any of what Count Vohn recently posted that b6dolphins4 linked it does touch base on the header scenario, but there are no links to the header threads. Count Vohn, in my opinion, is really someone I can’t even begin to fully describe without starting my own thread. He’s an upstanding and genuine person who has helped many people here including myself. He’s gone out of his way above anything I expected and I’ve been in and out of the racing scene for just over 25 years. With all that said he absolutely knows his shit.

#30

This right here.

I understand what you’re trying to do icanfly and I both thank and applaud you for it. I wish I had something to point the idiots to for definitive proof when they get mentioned, but the fact is, at this site there’s a ton of experience and knowledge, more so than any other Audi enthusiast site. With that comes trust and respect when certain people are telling us a product is shit. That being said, I’d still think it’d be beicial to having something to link to that’ll never be deleted for the people who don’t know the respected veterans of the site. But if you don’t plan on gathering real world data, nobody here will care what the dyno results say. Also, what’s your plan of attack for testing? Will the car be stock otherwise when you test the headers? Is your baseline going to be completely stock? What about maintenance? Make sure you take care of any maintenance items before you get your baseline as that can definitely affect performance.

If you aren’t familiar with CountVohn, he’s the main reason why the B6/7 S4 is where it is now, and where it will be in the near future performance wise. He’s contributed more than any one singlehandedly to the platform and he has no reason to lie as that would be contradictory to his motives.

#31

see, now we’re talking…

A reasonable test method would be a 1:1 comparison (before headers | after headers) - on the same dyno, under as best as we can get-same day conditions (temp / humidity etc.).

The pile of parts are all service and maintenance items (with two performance parts that I’ll install after testing to asses impact). I’ll then drive the car for ~6 months (if it lasts that long) in mixed conditions. I am very familiar with my car and am curious about the ‘assdyno’ response as well. Then, I’ll remove the system and convert back to the original exhaust system I have in place now (non-cat full custom DP’s linked to miltek w/ x pipe all 2.5")

I get what everyone is saying, but they are all just ‘saying it’…no one seems to have the facts to back it up.

“Never be afraid to raise your voice for honesty and truth and compassion against injustice and lying and greed. If people all over the world…would do this, it would change the earth.”
― William Faulkner

I want facts to help inform our ‘newer and fast growing’ community.

I am very familiar with the count and had hoped the light of his thread would further illuminate my efforts in light of supporting the community. The count is topnotch and of all the folks in this entire community (outside of JHM themselves) He’s the one I’d pay the most attention to, for facts.

thanks for asking about testing Dlo!

#32

First off, let me say that I have owned a few SSAC/XSP exhaust products; 3, to be exact. One was perfect and lasted a long time, one didn’t fit together very well but did bolt up, and the third had a flange welded on crooked enough that it wouldn’t fit the car at all. All had nice welds, and the turbo manifold thankfully was the best of the bunch, and it took plenty of abuse without ever cracking, while some $1,000+ manifolds still had been known to crack.

Also, I would consider myself a calculated risk taker. I was the first to dive into the Magnaflow cat-back for the S4, which a lot of people love now, considering it’s less than $700 shipped. I also turned my own rear diff.

And finally, I rarely buy anything of consequence without first analyzing it, researching it, and doing as much leg work as I think it takes to be prudent and not end up buying it a second time when I realize the first was a dud. I hate that!

So, based on what you now know about me, I would not pay $400 for these. My research shows that the chances I would have to pull my motor again to remove them are relatively high, so I don’t want a part in it. I would also be wasting the header wrap if they failed, so there is additional cost. I also did not get to see many of the threads the rest of the elders here got to see, and I am definitely a Missouri type - “show me!” (I’m going to consider myself an elder now) So, with that said, I would be interested in seeing what you come up with, but I, too, would like to see a combination of completely unsmoothed and uncorrected dyno sheet + 1/4mi time slip for both before and after. The former to detail the story and the latter to back it up as truth. A video of the 1/4mi time, including zoom in on the official time at the end, would help your credibility on the forums.

I would also go so far as to paypal you a few bucks for the effort if you completed the above testing, whether it turns out well or not.

#33

The fact that your ‘science’ is a dyno run that you pay an operator for destroys your science unfortunately. There are 4 types of dyno runs.

  1. the one done by a company who developed a part. Always great.
  2. the one done by a company on a competitor’s part. Always bad.
  3. the one done by a shop who installed/sold you stuff. Always great.
  4. the one done by a customer who pays a dyno guy to tell him how his car is doing. This is a coin toss…some dyno operators want you to feel good about their dyno, so the parameters make your stuff look great. Other dyno operators just run a dyno in an impartial way. So you get a decent look at the powerband, in gear, but no idea on how the car accelerates.

I don’t know about you but I buy my power adder parts so I can accelerate faster, not spin drums in a single gear and print paper in an environment where the results can be made to read whatever I (or the operator) want. So I’d much rather see acceleration data.

Just install them on your car and hit a NHRA/IHRA certified dragstrip and see if you can beat my S4 with downpipes/tune/catback and a couple of lw parts (front rotors and crank pulley). Sounds like you already have that stuff, so the big difference will be your headers vs. my 2.5" catless downpipes. I spent $500 on downpipes, $1300 on catback, $300 on crank pulley, $500 on rotors, $500 on tune. Total $3100 + labour. Here are the top 2.5" downpipes cars…

V8S4 ryan trapped 106.96
Euroswagr trapped 106.56
I trapped 107.8 MPH

For all motor headers times:
Justincredible trapped 110.8
Jason@JHM trapped 111.05

As you can see, the top JHM cars have about 3-5 MPH of trap speed advantage on the top 2.5" catless downpipes cars posted. That’s about 30-50 hp in the world of drag racing 3800 lb AWD Audis. So it’s a significant delta.

If you get your ducks in a row (run the car in good density altitude like we all did, do a good job driving like we did, make 5 or 10 passes to get it right, and follow the required steps to put your best pass down) it will tell us a lot about those headers.

If you trap 107-108, it will be a skip. If you trap 110+ it will be something to look at . If you trap 105 or less, it will be a bit disappointing for you, as 20 hrs of labour was just wasted and now you have some poorly made, poor fitting chinese copycat headers on your car.

#34

I think you’re asking him to prove that they’re shit, because you aren’t as well read as he is. That doesn’t make sense. The guy is a moderator on audizoo and has been for 6 years. Most of the guys here have seen the same bs, and already know they’re junk.

No, the onus is upon you my friend, to show everyone else that these are worth something other than their weight in scrap aluminized steel. You’re the one who has the new thesis, not everyone else.

#35

RTFS…the threads were deleted by the company that sells these things once they became paying advertisers.

You keep making this about JHM…why? It has nothing to do with JHM.

Why don’t you go and run a great time with your chinaheaders and show the world what’s up? Quit asking for drama and posting antagonistic posts.

You should have said

“Guys, I’m going to actually test these things. I realise most think they’re junk. I’m stubborn, and since I own them, I want to test them, and I know this site will let the thread stand as opposed to being disappeared like the others. So, what should I do?”

Instead you came in with attitude and with fists flying…and started a bunch of JHM shit.

#36

with those two statements, you just proved you don’t care about facts.

  1. ‘they look well made’ and ‘looking at the pictures these are fine’.
    That’s your science? That’s your proof that encouraged you to install them? lololol

  2. ‘I won’t post 1/4 times’ means ‘I’m terrified of a measuring stick that I can’t control and manipulate’

#37

haven’t read through the thread, but after seeing this, not sure i want to lol

#38

yup, that pretty much summarizes the thought process of someone who won’t do well on audirevolution. Leading up to that, it had all the hallmarks of an ‘I’m an engineer, thus I know better, and I can make it better…and you need to give me impossible levels of proof before I listen’ (see jcviggen)…and then that anti 1/4 mile post just confirmed it lol.

unsub

#39

Heh - and I thought the skydiving community was interesting… We have a joke in my scene that says “Skygod says it, so it must be true”. What that really means is - do your own research, talk to your instructors and don’t believe anything you read on the web - it just might get you killed.

I don’t drag race my car. It’s not a thing I enjoy doing. I build my cars for corners and enjoy the canyons. So my intention isn’t to put a car together and go hope I can launch it as fast and hard as guys that spend their weekends chasing timeslips. I have absolutely zero interest in the drag strip. And if that writes me off for you guys, no worries. I’ll stick to jumping out of planes on the weekends and chasing my own curiosity while using machines to show me the pure numbers.

And I don’t need the community to PROVE anything to me. I didn’t come here asking for anything of that sort, nor did I ask for the opinion of the community. I asked if anyone was interested in a factual review of the parts because there isn’t one that can be referenced. The reason I came in ‘on-guard’ is for exactly this reason - because instead of just getting a bit of participation, everyone went off, still can’t point me to facts but insist on “their knowledge being factual” so it must be true.

Further, I didn’t come here “to do well on audirevo”. I came here to help our community out, by putting in place some facts that can be pointed at when a newb comes and asks about ‘fleabay headers’. But since you guys already have all the facts and extensive experience with these parts - I guess our community just has to come ask you guys what’s what, and hope they don’t get shot in the face by a bunch of guys that ‘have all the knowledge’. When it’s they’re very naivety that is leading them to ask questions in the first place (let’s ignore the fact that if they are new to the scene/platform/performance cars in general, they don’t know you guys from adam, but hey, let’s ignore that all for now). So instead of supporting, growing and contributing to our community in a healthy way, you just pop-off on them and have nothing but hearsay to back it up as far as they’re concerned. Not super useful.

but since you guys know your right, then that’s all that matters…

Pinkies out, boys.
Pinkies out.

#40

Do you understand those of us that drag race do it like once or twice a year? We aren’t competing weekly or anything. The benefit is we can prove to ourselves and others that our car accelerates faster than it did before modifications.

If you are competent enough to start from a stand still and quickly shift through gears 1-4, then we will get a pretty good understanding of your gains.

You still have this weird defensive chip on your shoulder…just go do it and show us your results. If you were set on doing that before this thread then the thread was pointless. Just don’t come back and say this dyno shows these headers are just as good as JHM unless you plan on finding a jHM header car to do some pulls with or you show us a decent trap speed at a IHRA/NHRA track.