the important thing to take away from it is that the motor is actually running retarded timing throughout the rev band, instead of the 20*+ advanced that it normally does
Great stuff beemercer. I can’t believe the car is even running with so much negative timing. OP you might want to check your spark plugs after you get this fixed. Running so late in the burn cycle can cause damage to the plugs.
I just replaced the plugs a couple hundred miles ago with NGK BKR7E plugs. Sorry it took so long for the next round of logs. Here are the blocks I took:
003
020
026
003
021
027
It seems as though the car is still pulling a little bit of timing, and only on the passenger side bank. Now I see what beemercer was saying about the first sets of logs I took being corrupted. These were so much easier to interpret in excel, so I understand what’s going on and how to interpret them much better.
LOG-01-003-020-026.CSV (1.94 KB)
LOG-01-003-027-021.CSV (2.36 KB)
just got home, gonna take a look now and post graphs etc in a bit
well first impressions, good news is you went from 401.7 rpm/sec to 455.1 rpm/sec in one run and 442.6 rpm/sec in the other run, so the car is definitely moving better. Tough thing is the roads and weather conditions can have a great effect on this. Less timing retard for sure though, so it seems like things are better. It’s still not were it should be, a car with headers (ported intake mani as well I believe?) should be quicker. My S4 was 540 rpm/sec iirc for reference.
cuz everyone loves the graphs…
http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/603870445.jpg
so one important thing to see is that instead of ranging from -8* to 5* of timing advance on the stronger second run it was more like 13* to 24* advanced.
also note the first graph, the 3rd run was fastest despite the longer sample range (these cars die after 6200rpm so extending the sample range normally lowers rpm/sec)
another interesting piece is that now the ECU is requesting more timing advance, so even though there is still some retard the actual timing curve the motor is using is far more along the lines of what is expected.
all in all the car is running stronger, but it should be running even stronger. Any DTCs in the engine module?
Its good to see the car is starting to run better but it looks like the car is still not mechanicaly 100% where it should be.
Just kinda sounds like a gremlin to me. Something definitly off in the wires or the electrical system
what’s in 26 and 27 that he’s logging?
026 and 027 are the knock sensor blocks for banks 1 and 2 respectively. I wanted to see if any of the sensors were recording markedly different values.
I know I might not be the tech master but Im still thinking there is an issue with the car and the wires. Loging the knock sensors that seem to be out of sink would be a great idea
Out of all the Audi talk sites this one seams to be filled with very knowledge people. Long story short i was experiencing the same symptoms as the OP. One thing I will add it is imperative to have a VAG scanner a basic OBDII scanner is useless. After scanning the car I has various knock codes. I had a few broken wires that I have to fix, once that was done the only code I go was P0327 and 16711. Replaced the Bank 1 Knock sensor 1 cleared the codes and the car runs perfectly.
Again thanks to this site and you guys this problem is no fixed!
Welcome to the site. This is a great site all about being drama free more about help then the filler. Nice to have you feel free to share more about your car and if you have any more questions bring them on. We also say if you feel the site helped you try to pass the site on to atleast one more person if you can.
Out of all the Audi talk sites this one seams to be filled with very knowledge people. Long story short i was experiencing the same symptoms as the OP. One thing I will add it is imperative to have a VAG scanner a basic OBDII scanner is useless. After scanning the car I has various knock codes. I had a few broken wires that I have to fix, once that was done the only code I go was P0327 and 16711. Replaced the Bank 1 Knock sensor 1 cleared the codes and the car runs perfectly.
Again thanks to this site and you guys this problem is no fixed!
Welcome to the site. This is a great site all about being drama free more about help then the filler. Nice to have you feel free to share more about your car and if you have any more questions bring them on. We also say if you feel the site helped you try to pass the site on to atleast one more person if you can.
I have passed the site on to many others. I am part owner of a Tuning Company that specializes in German and Euro and Exotics. Not sure the rules of advertising so I won’t give out the name just yet. Tuning is one thing mechanical diagnosis is something else. WE get so busy often our own cars get neglected, sad truth. I picked up my B6 S4 for a steal but it did have many issues. One good thing the chain guides were done main reason I got the car. The bad there was an evil vibration, i knew it was not a misfire but had no idea what i was into here as I ahve never felt a vibration such as this. I knew worst case it needed a motor if that was the case get a used one rebuild and add a supercharger ;D but no the motor was fine. After a pulling the motor and trans we discovered the flywheel had shifted and locked into place (yes you can all cringe) it shattered the bell-housing apparently for the second time. The trans had been welded, I will admit whoever did the welding did a decent job. we double checked the crank make sure nothing was wrong and thank god all was well. Then I started to noticed a bit of power loss of course not enough to toss a CEL or MIL or a VAG code so let the guess work begin. Shortly bank 1 CAT melted out, how wonderful. When we pulled both DP and O2 sensors bank1 was lean. Now comes all the testing comp, leakdown and smoke, (small TB gasket leak $5 fix) but nothing out of spec (yet) as time went on performance got worse and worse all data was ok except one thing that I have not experienced yet. I noticed Bank1 was pulling timing Cam timing was off a bit but Lambda matched bank2. I could be wrong with cam timing but it was different than bank 2 while acceleration and in Open loop. Had to bring it to my buddy that owned a Audi repair shop as I am lost at this point. He looked at the data had no idea he suggested a few things to check but I needed car and had to bring it back. As long as I am not on the throttle to bad the car runs great, only when I go half throttle the hesitation or power loss would occur. A few weeks ago when I made my last post the car took a further drop on power and the hesitation was even worse. I scanned the car again (very frustrated at this point) and there is was!!! bank1 knock sensor (along with a few other) turned out the sensor 1 was done and I had a few broken wires on other sensors), I replaced the sensor, fixed the wires (heat rot I am guessing) and car runs like a beast! all that for a freaking $40 sensor, I was pissed and a bit embarrassed as the data was right there an I did not pic up on it. BRAINS! AS I said engine tuning is one thing and vehicle mechanics is another. That’s my novel thanks for reading.
I have passed the site on to many others. I am part owner of a Tuning Company that specializes in German and Euro and Exotics. Not sure the rules of advertising so I won’t give out the name just yet. Tuning is one thing mechanical diagnosis is something else. WE get so busy often our own cars get neglected, sad truth. I picked up my B6 S4 for a steal but it did have many issues. One good thing the chain guides were done main reason I got the car. The bad there was an evil vibration, i knew it was not a misfire but had no idea what i was into here as I ahve never felt a vibration such as this. I knew worst case it needed a motor if that was the case get a used one rebuild and add a supercharger ;D but no the motor was fine. After a pulling the motor and trans we discovered the flywheel had shifted and locked into place (yes you can all cringe) it shattered the bell-housing apparently for the second time. The trans had been welded, I will admit whoever did the welding did a decent job. we double checked the crank make sure nothing was wrong and thank god all was well. Then I started to noticed a bit of power loss of course not enough to toss a CEL or MIL or a VAG code so let the guess work begin. Shortly bank 1 CAT melted out, how wonderful. When we pulled both DP and O2 sensors bank1 was lean. Now comes all the testing comp, leakdown and smoke, (small TB gasket leak $5 fix) but nothing out of spec (yet) as time went on performance got worse and worse all data was ok except one thing that I have not experienced yet. I noticed Bank1 was pulling timing Cam timing was off a bit but Lambda matched bank2. I could be wrong with cam timing but it was different than bank 2 while acceleration and in Open loop. Had to bring it to my buddy that owned a Audi repair shop as I am lost at this point. He looked at the data had no idea he suggested a few things to check but I needed car and had to bring it back. As long as I am not on the throttle to bad the car runs great, only when I go half throttle the hesitation or power loss would occur. A few weeks ago when I made my last post the car took a further drop on power and the hesitation was even worse. I scanned the car again (very frustrated at this point) and there is was!!! bank1 knock sensor (along with a few other) turned out the sensor 1 was done and I had a few broken wires on other sensors), I replaced the sensor, fixed the wires (heat rot I am guessing) and car runs like a beast! all that for a freaking $40 sensor, I was pissed and a bit embarrassed as the data was right there an I did not pic up on it. BRAINS! AS I said engine tuning is one thing and vehicle mechanics is another. That’s my novel thanks for reading.