whats everyone’s speculations regarding headers on a stage 3 car. It makes sense logically. Why wouldn’t gains be more measurable if you’re moving more air…
I will be throwing my old set back in when I do a clutch for the car as I cant see them hurting. if nothing else they may help cool the engine bay a bit. the cats supposedly get so hot now that they have to supply heat shields for them and running the headers would theoretically reduce the temps improving EGT’s a bit…
Discuss…
My opinion is that it’s rearranging deck chairs. It’s really a discussion about backpressure and the power curve. Remove all backpressure and you get no low end response. You just shift the power up the curve. The engine will really appreciate the lack of restriction from 5000 to 7200 RPM when it’s moving thousands of liters of air a second. I honestly think you get 90% of this effect from any aftermarket cat-back exhaust. My power curve pulls straight to redline without falling.
Modern cars with engines like the 3.0TFSI don’t have restrictive exhausts any more. This is a point of controversy among people who bend a $40 pipe into a $400 MSRP “test pipe” and want to sell it to you. If you were designing the car from scratch, you could move the engine closer to the firewall and move the cats under the car. It’s all jammed up close so they heat up fast for people who park their Audi’s outside in winter (lol).
Eurocode claimed 58whp difference with their headers on the stage 3 car they put them on. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/667099-APR-Magnuson-B8-B8-5-S4-S5-Stage-3-hits-478WHP-on-CA-91-octane!!!-Sale-is-on-8950!!!
Yea i saw that, but prefer the advice of the minds on here
$900 + $800 install (at eurotek)
Not made in china bro, played with the others and ours are top of the heap.
waste of time, waste of money. If I owned them and they were out of the car, I’d sell them. There are lots of people who don’t realise they do nothing and don’t visit this site, so there are buyers out there.
The problem isn’t ‘headers vs. not’. The problem is ‘well designed headers vs. headers for the sake of headers’. As we’ve seen on the NA cars, the headers really helped, but ONLY if they were well designed.
JHM Burned about 5-6 sets/designs before settling on their B67 S4 headers. The others, which all looked great, weren’t adding enough, or were adding where you didn’t need it. They finally got the design nailed, and it helped a ton.
Eurocode’s headers have been shown to add absolutely ZERO in all situations, other than their in house dyno
stock - headers do nothing
stage 1 - headers do nothing
stage 2 - headers do nothing
stage 2 on race gas and full bolt ons - headers do nothing
This is true for 0-60 mph, 0-120 mph, 60-130 mph. They literally do nothing.
Since the 1740 is marginally bigger than the 1320, and since the headers haven’t changed, why do we think they are suddenly going to work?
You mentioned they’re not on the car. Sell them, recoup $1000-1500 and move on. lesson learned.
Right, $400 for each bank and you need 2. If I lived in North Carolina like skypilot it would be an option but in California I wouldn’t consider it personally. Seems like an intractable situation if you get flagged.
thoughts on just going straight catless so that this way design is a negligible issue?
I don’t know what you mean. Test pipes to a catback exhaust?
Test pipes seem to work just fine. JHM has some. Or you can call Eurotek and pay double lol.
What’s on your car today?
If you’re on stock cats + catback that would be ideal for the ‘race’ vs. tude since he’s on the stock cats as well.
We do have Test Pipes for the B8 S4. Currently $595 https://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/exhaust-test-pipes-stainless-steel-25-jhm-for-b8-s4-s5-30t-p-2430.html
We charge 4 hours for 6mt and 6 hours for auto for installation of the test pipes.
I think there is a picture showing stock manifolds for the B8 and the headers. The headers are just longer tubes. For FI Apps you dont want longer tubes as it can kill the upper rpm performance. On a NA car when you add a blower or FI it makes sense to do headers to help down low and at the points where the camshaft has over lap due to how NA and FI camshafts are different.
With the 3.0t being FI and people getting such great results with cats in it would make more sense to just go catless. They offer more flow potential then stock. And headers that work are built to help eliminate an area in the power curve that is lacking. The NA cars lack ability at certian RPM ranges where headers pull in more air into the cylinders then the piston void. You dont have that issue with the 3.0t
So far nothing has shown so far that the cars need headers or that the headers actually do anything. To me design wise they dont look to have the needed changes to actually do anything other then extending the oem runner length
Do you guys think the inability to phase the 3.0TFSI exhaust cams has something to do with this?
The cams should be fully adjustable in the tune. But this is more of an over lapping issue. NA cams have a over lap where both the intake and exhaust cam are open at the same time. On FI cars this usually isnt the case. Tune wise I dont see you being able to over lap the cams on a FI car and you wouldnt want to
There is no physical ability to phase the exhaust cams. You can verify by checking out the 3.0T self study guide and looking in the engine management section. I would link but am on my phone. Kind of surprising since the 3.2 from which this engine is based off has this functionality.
The 2.0T also has the valve lift where you can vary the cam depth, although I think it’s more for efficiency (new b9 2.0T is supposed to run Miller cycle I believe).
I admit it - Rob has gone over my head. Respect.
It’s pretty simple, think dual VANOS vs single VANOS. Vtec etc.
You can see the intake cam phasing below, but nothing on the exhaust side
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/572/21414947796_8ace600803_o.jpg
as justin mentioned, you wouldn’t expect it to be the same because they’re very different applications being NA and FI.
Doesn’t the 2.0T have dual cam phasing along with the BMW N54, N55 etc?
According to this, Jaguar’s supercharged V6 has dual variable cam timing
http://www.jaguarusa.com/all-models/xf/xf-models/xf-3-0-awd.html
I did find it weird when they came out with the 3.0Ts and they didn’t have exhaust cam phasing/adjusters. Figured that with both intake and exhaust cam phasing that they could really cram in the air CFMs. Apparently it was deemed unnecessary. Plus the newer 3.2 FSI V6s have the Audi valve lift system too so that they can change the cam profile to make the engine more variable.
Kind in mind the B6/7 S4 only has intake camshaft adjusters and phasing too. But it is older technology then the 2005 3.2 FSI V6 and of course the 3.0T FSI V6.
Off topic kind of: Audi has actually gone through quite a few different versions of variable valve timing from the old 2.8/2.7TT/t-belt 4.2 NA/TT, to the t-belt 3.0 NA V6, to the B6/7 S4 4.2, to the 3.2/4.2/5.2 FSI engines, and to the newer Audi Valve Lift 2.0T/3.2.