Help with diagnosis

[Swanky]

I was discussing this with someone from JHM and he seemed to think the concern over TD1 might be overblown…that it might be ‘beatable’.

Of course having to go to a dealer with a busted down car won’t be so useful, but if you could flash load a stock file on your car yourself (i.e. the way JHM does it with their S5 and RS4 customers using a cable they provide, and a connection to their server) it would be a potential way to avoid TD1. Just load her up before you go to the dealer…get the work done…then flash back to JHM 93 or whatever once you’re done.

tell them to do a tune!

[theKB]

yes, fried a cylinder wall or something. Not sure on alll the details. Someone emailed it to me…I’ll dig up the link.

edit: found

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2824645

again…very surprised this hasn’t been discussed more

I think if that was on AZ it might get a bit more discussion?

Wonder when the problem presented itself and how long he drove like that for…

[Silentbob]

Thanks for the input guys!

I eliminated the O2 CEL as a cause because the CEL appeared several times over the course of two months prior to me noticing the current performance issues. I also did a bit of research on these CEL’s and it seem to support my theory of a loose O2 spacer as the cause.

Do you still think it could be the cause of my performance issues?

Address 01: Engine (J623-CCBA) Labels: 06E-907-551-CAK.clb
Part No SW: 8K0 907 551 A HW: 8K0 907 551 A
Component: 3.0T SIMOS84 H06 0002
Revision: --------
Coding: 0104000A240F0128
Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM30TFS8K0907551A A01003
ROD: EV_ECM30TFS8K0907551A.rod
VCID: 2F67175F76066D1

2 Faults Found:
6429 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S2
P0136 00 [104] - Malfunction in Circuit
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 7
Mileage: 42852 km
Date: 2012.03.15
Time: 21:12:13

6430 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B2 S2
P0156 00 [096] - Malfunction in Circuit
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 44538 km
Date: 2012.04.15
Time: 00:26:57

These codes are the result of a plausibility check that tests (under certain enable contions) if the post cat O2 sensors see a (very) lean condition when the engine is in pull with cylinder shut off. Depending on the position of the sensors in the aftermarket header this can falsely be triggered.
To ged rid of it the calibration has to be changed accordingly.
Disabling certain diagnosis is not the best idea with rate based monitoring.

Anyway this should have no effect on driving.

[81bear]

Wouldn’t a dealer be curious about the flash counter being reset?

helps to know people on the inside lol, not like I’ll ever be buying an under warranty audi

Sak,

you are correct it’s not a cat efficiency code its a malfunction code.

Last time this happened it was explained to me that the spacers (034 motorsports at the time) were installed in a way that had the sensors upside down. Being upside down water would pool on them causing them to malfunction which led to the corresponding fault codes. They removed the spacers, dried the sensors, and reinstalled them and all was good.

A few weeks went by and I was testing the ECU program switch and noticed I had fault codes after switching to stock mode. Spoke to Arin at APR and he said the efficiency codes would always be there, what the testpipe file does is remove the check engine light on the dash. However, in stock mode your check engine light will come on as if it doesn’t, and the dealer notices your car has testpipes/HFC, it would be a sure sign that you have a tune on your car and could put your powertrain warranty in question. So I decided to install the Stratmosphere spacers so that I could avoid the check engine light in stock modes (for dealer services and such).

Do you think the ECU is compensating based on these codes and that is why I’m noticing these problems?

In any event, I think my next step will be removing the spacers especially with all this TD1 talk no point in trying to avoid the ECU tune conversation as once the car is connected they (Audi) will know I’m tuned.

I am interested in logging via Vagcom to validate my assumptions. Does anyone know the field numbers I would be logging?

Oh yeah, Thanks again Sak and beemercer for your input! Very helpful!

interesting that the tune doesnt actually do a cat delete, do you fail cat readiness?

have yet to test via vagcom. Once the spacers are removed I’ll give it a shot.

Thanks for your input Silentbob!

I was hoping the codes were the cause of the minor performance issues I’ve been having but based on your post it doesn’t seem to be the case. In any event, I’ve scheduled to have the spacers removed and will see how she drives after that.

[sakimano]

what performance problems are you having?

running 12.2-12.3 @ 113+ = no problem

[81bear]

what performance problems are you having?

running 12.2-12.3 @ 113+ = no problem

Well when you put it that way…

Seriously, I want to get back to the strip and see if this is all in my head!

[sakimano]

it usually is. Kinda like carbon. People stress carbon buildup far too much…but when you do the performance testing, it’s not really THAT bad.

Or just log your car in 3rd gear from 2000-7000 Rpm going WOT…and do so every few months. Then you have a ‘standard’ to compare to…to measure how quickly you’re going through the RPMs. Choose a flat road, use the same one every time. Once you think your car is lagging a bit, re-test it. Note conditions (DA) etc.

[81bear]

Well the good news is that I seem to have fixed the problem! ;D

The bad news is I’m pretty sure I was running the 100 tune for about a month on 94 octane! >:(

Still not sure how it could have happened, I did let a friend drive the car to and from the drag strip but I didn’t think program switch was possible while moving? Oh well, can do anything about it now.

[bangoman]

Now get 100 gas in there and run again…

[sakimano]

Yikes…good thing your tuner doesn’t disable knock sensors!

Also good thing you live in the land of 94…not Californian 91 piss

[81bear]

Yikes…good thing your tuner doesn’t disable knock sensors!

Also good thing you live in the land of 94…not Californian 91 piss

I agree on both counts! Still not 100% sure of what happened though

[Jspazz]

Hey bear, just read this. Crazy!

I dunno, I didn’t feel anything strange when I took it down the strip…

I have watched VCDS once running 100 tune on 94, I watched timing retard 10 degrees on all cylinders from what seemed to be medium highway throttle application. I pulled over and switched it back…I wanted to know how close we were to using methanol injection with 94 gas on 100 tune. It was further than I thought.

But I’d imagine the computer would shut things down at some point…that’s how you got the CEL, then? Misfires?

[sakimano]

I have watched VCDS once running 100 tune on 94, I watched timing retard 10 degrees on all cylinders from what seemed to be medium highway throttle application. I pulled over and switched it back…I wanted to know how close we were to using methanol injection with 94 gas on 100 tune. It was further than I thought.

can you explain this further because it sounds interesting and I’m confused. The ECU pulled 10 degrees of timing using our 94 on the 100 file…but how do you know what running 94+meth would have done? (i.e. how do you know how far 94+meth on the 100 file is from 100 on the 100 file?)

Also have any of you guys sent logs to APR on 94 using their 93 file? I bet there’s more in it. Our 94 is great for power and the cars love it. I bet they could write a slightly more interesting file for PetroCanada 94 guys. JHM used to always comment about how amazing my logs looked when I’d send them to them.

Also have you logged your car on 100 to see retardation in various conditions (good DA, shit DA etc.)?

Also where’s my memory card?

[81bear]

Hey bear, just read this. Crazy!

I dunno, I didn’t feel anything strange when I took it down the strip…

I have watched VCDS once running 100 tune on 94, I watched timing retard 10 degrees on all cylinders from what seemed to be medium highway throttle application. I pulled over and switched it back…I wanted to know how close we were to using methanol injection with 94 gas on 100 tune. It was further than I thought.

But I’d imagine the computer would shut things down at some point…that’s how you got the CEL, then? Misfires?

J,

Not sure when, or if for that matter, the map was changed from 93 to 100 but if it was in fact change it was most probably changed on the ride back from the strip. I let a friend drive the car back and I remember him playing with the cruise control stack but didn’t think you could change programs while the engine was running so I wasn’t concerned.

[Jspazz]

Good point saki, I was assuming I could make up for a few degrees of timing advance, but that was a total guess. Still, the amount of timing retard pull under even medium load blew me away.

On the other hand, it seems Bear did an awesome R&D experiment, and came out alive. We need to know how much you drove and if possible, how many time you went WOT. Im surprised as heck your car is ok!

I’ll likely be going to Cayuga tomorrow, to the strip. Company always welcome…!

[Jspazz]

My post got cut…

On the other hand, Bear did the ultimate experiment and came out alive. We need to use this info! Bear, how much did you drive like this, and if you remember, how much WOT?

I’m going to Cayuga tomorrow, the strip, company always appreciated…

EDIT: my post only shows cut on Tapatalk…? wtf.

[sakimano]

Good point saki, I was assuming I could make up for a few degrees of timing advance, but that was a total guess. Still, the amount of timing retard pull under even medium load blew me away.

On the other hand, it seems Bear did an awesome R&D experiment, and came out alive. We need to know how much you drove and if possible, how many time you went WOT. Im surprised as heck your car is ok!

I’ll likely be going to Cayuga tomorrow, to the strip. Company always welcome…!

hahahaha that’s a really scary R&D experiment…especially on an out of warranty car.

any answers?

1. Also have any of you guys sent logs to APR on 94 using their 93 file? I bet there’s more in it. Our 94 is great for power and the cars love it. I bet they could write a slightly more interesting file for PetroCanada 94 guys. JHM used to always comment about how amazing my logs looked when I’d send them to them.

2. Also have you logged your car on 100 to see retardation in various conditions (good DA, shit DA etc.)?

3. Also where’s my memory card?

[Jspazz]

Lol…save me a trip and come to Cayuga…

Or email me if tonight is ok, I’ll drop it off

[sakimano]

sure thing

what about the other questions? I’d like to see what we’re getting out of our fuel here. I get the feeling it’s pretty frigging awesome. I’d like to see if there’s any timing pulled on the 93 file using 94 octane petro canada on your cars in decent/good/shit conditions. I bet there’s virtually none until it gets hot.

[b]1. Also have any of you guys sent logs to APR on 94 using their 93 file? I bet there’s more in it. Our 94 is great for power and the cars love it. I bet they could write a slightly more interesting file for PetroCanada 94 guys. JHM used to always comment about how amazing my logs looked when I’d send them to them.

2. Also have you logged your car on 100 to see retardation in various conditions (good DA, shit DA etc.)?[/b]

[NY07RS4]

I definitely agree with your octane assumption, especially for the F/I cars. But I’m also thinking it makes a larger difference on our N/A (B7 RS4) than most realise or assume.