I don't know how many of you have sen this (RE: injectors)

A6 All/ S6 All
#1

I’ve been wrestling with chasing misfires due to carbon and injector related maladies like pretty much everyone here…

I found a set of 8 on ebay that were rebuilt for a decent price, but that left me with 3 that were the originals (broke the tab on one of the “new” ones). I bit the bullet and bought three new ones, but now I feel stupid because;
https://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/jhm-cleaned-flowed-and-resealed-injectors-set-of-10-for-v10-s6-s8-p-4082.html

JHM finally made the injector service “official” and added to their catalog. I don’t know if you’ve been shopping injectors recently, but $300 for a full set of 10 healthy injectors is a STEAL. I’m extremely positive you won’t find a better deal anywhere, let alone from someone that’ll “properly” service them…

I was going to do this instead of buying 3 new, but I couldn’t afford the down time - turns out it doesn’t matter - For another $300 core charge they’ll send you 10 re-cons and then refund half of that when you send your cores in.

Ridiculously great deal compared to ANY other option out there - THANK YOU JHM!

#2

I saw this recently, didn’t realise they did the cost reduction when sending back y old ones.

I’ll definitely be looking at this again ;D

#3

Where are you getting $300 for a full set of injectors?

It is 600 for reconditioning your old ones.

+300 (for a total of 900) if you are not sending yours in first…

#4

I should have read the whole JHM info first, sorry. I’ll have to buy a full new set first as I’m over in the UK so couldn’t wait that long to get them back.

#5

I was really excited at first lol.

#6

Id still say this is something to really be excited about. Here is why. We have all seen multiple times when the dealership has tried to fix the issue by installing new injectors only for some odd reason to need to swap out more injectors that they have already replaced.

Even when you look at new injectors this is a great deal as with new injectors you dont know exactly what they flow. I have never seen anyone in the service injector biz test injectors properly except JHM. I recently helped an S8 local guy with a terrible missifre issue that was there one day gone the next turned out to be injectors. He got the JHM injector serviced done and the injectors came with flow sheets. The JHM serviced injectors fiixed the missifre issue and the fuel trims are now better than ever.

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/123636533.jpg

Honestly given the options and what you get for the money. Its a great deal. and like compgeek said if you need you can do the core exhange and not have any down time.

#7

Just called them to discuss this. Actually i called approximately 10 gasoline fuel injection shops and its laughable, they only test up to 5 bar…when even our old 1st gen DI engines run at 110 bar, most new cars are 200-250, and next year we will be seeing 350 bar systems, and in 4-5 years 800 bar systems.
testing at 5 bar is only good for PFI injectors.
This is similar to diesel injectors. an old cummins injector is set at 280 bar. you have to take it to approx 270 bar and hold it to see if there is any leaking or driblets forming. Going to 50 bar on a diesel injector will show you nothing…

That being said, i spoke with JHM and they test at 100 bar. 600$ for a set of 10.

Only thing is though…the filter and teflon seal kit is 37 dollars EACH. thats 370 dollars just for seals. Which is just insane. you are approx 200$ away from just buying brand new injectors at that point…
These injectors are not any special dimensions, that hitachi PN is used on different applications. There is no reason for 1 injector seal to be so expensive…

#8

ah, lol. That’s what I get for reading strangely worded adcopy before coffee… So it’s $600+$300 core charge. I read it as $600 total with $300 refunded for core. :wink:

Still - $600 is very competitive, more so when done by a competent tech on the proper flow bench.

#9

i woudlnt say 600 is competitive at all. It is at minimum 30-40% more. Plus is you need a new teflon seal that is 37 EACH.

however…like mentioned before, they are the ONLY company i have found that tests GDI injectors at their full operating pressures. all others run at 5 bar. clean the outside, then pulse them in the ultra sonic bath.
YOu get no useful information running a 100 bar injector at 5 bar. You can only hope that by 2 way US cleaning it runs as intended at operating pressure…but cant test it (unless you send to JHM)
Injector shops need to get on board with this as the GDI pressures will only continue to rise.

#10

WHAT LOLLOL… Its incredibly competitive and I agree with compugeek5150 . I think you might have a few things wrong in your outlook. Let me explain I think it will make more sense when you look at it like this…

1 your 100% right and again like you mentioned this isnt a service thats offered by anyone else so its not exactly an apples to apples comparison but. my injectors were tested at 1700 psi. Vs 5 bar and weak 5 bar testing injector prices averages from 27 to 40 dollars an injector and thats before adding parts.

2 The FSI injector seals are something that A.) dont just fall onto the injector and your paying for someone to take off and install the new seals and other parts. Most companies just reuse the old seals doing that causes a loss of compression as compression leaks by the old seals. Also Putting on new seals NOT SOMETHING THAT IS EASY and If JHM is setting the standard by only selling the injectors with new seals that would be a good indicator that you should change them. B.) I dont even see other companies offering seals like this or even an upgraded option. If companies do offer the seals they use nylon not teflon like your getting with the JHM units. Just like testing at over 1500psi the use of Teflon is something you don’t see other companys use (for cost reasons) I can go on and on why Teflon is a better seal for our injectors but looking to cost. If JHM is making these and its not something that’s widely available its going to cost more.

Also the 37 dollars from JHM covers more than just the seal it covers the entire kit that could include a filter basket cap if needed so its a service and replace as needed price that covers all the parts the seals are just the show piece. So that money covers more than just the seals if needed.

  1. As I mentioned before low 5 bar testing is on average 27 to 40 dollars before they add parts. The 60 dollars from JHM is a all in no change in price. When you look at low 5 bar testing by the time your done adding in the parts needed for other cleaning most of the time your all in for about 45 to 50 dollars an injector from what I have seen.

3 Getting this service done saves you about 50% over OEM units. Dont get that confused with generic FSI injectors of the same platform. When Audi gets parts from say Bosch or any manufacture Audi outlines what they need the parts to perform under when it comes to spec and other areas. That means these injectors were built to Audi spec for what Audi wanted them to do. What we have seen time and time and time again is that MOST generic parts that are not 100% Audi but are from the same platform dont perform the same. The RS4 guys have seen this. RS4 guys know first hand how much damage bad injectors can cause. They have gone down the path trying to get generic injectors that match the NON Audi injector part number. Only to have them cleaned and tested with there stock injectors to find that the generic injectors always seem to flow consideribly less.

4 you get a flow sheet back with the injectors that helps you know what you really have… Anyone can go on and find a china knock off injector like others have done and get the same results others have done. A failed injector after a short time or an injector that we dont know what it flows. Or even reman injectors that seem to fall into the same spot.

Obviously everyone needs to spend the money how they see fit but for me this is kinda a no brainer. NOBODY is testing these injectors and cleaning them like JHM and nobody is replaceing the seals like this with these kind of seals. From what I understand JHM had to build a machine to do this for the FSI injectors.

So for me its hard to say your over paying for a service that nobody else offers with parts nobody else offers. Knowing this and from all of the years of issues the RS4 and S5 guys have had with injectors and cheap injector options and just how important this is thats why I spent the money and got these injectors. and I will do this every time now in the future. Out of the growing list of all the V10 FSI cars I have changed injectors on now and all the nightmares I have seen from people getting reman injectors or ebay injectors that never seem to flow even close to what the OEM injectors do. This is a smart move and smart money.

#11

well said - pretty comprehensive.

Seems like 90% of the problems on the V10 cars is in the top end; carbon, injectors, coils plugs, all affected by the PCV operation. If any of these gets neglected problems snowball downstream into catastrophic failures.

A bad PVC will lead to more carbon buildup. Carbon buildup could take out an injector. a bad injector will eventually cause a cat and/or O2 to fail. The first few items are what a majority are trying to address and cause misfires, rough starts, rough running. Rough running puts a lot of stress on the motor mounts as well causing them to prematurely fail.

Price out the labor to drop the engine to replace a cat or O2 and tell me that installing the correct parts the first time isn’t worth it. Price out the cost of the engine mounts and tell me it’s not worth it.

I’ve tried replacing just the injectors on the misfiring cylinders - while the misfires went away, it wasn’t the miracle cure I’d hoped for. Reading several different measures outputs on these particular injectors, the flow rates are in fact all over the place - seems like the best you could hope for is a 20% variance across a set of new injectors. Who know about rebuilt ones… Genuine Audi injectors are about $150/ea. Generic Hitachi 06E906036AC’s that may or may not have VAG markings are about $10 cheaper.

so worst case scenario, you’re spending $900 for a documented flowmatched set vs. $1300 for a set that varies by 20% or more? How’s that not amazing. Send in your ratty take off injectors that you just replaced and you get $300 back?!

I’ve spent at least $900 already trying to sort the injectors. :frowning: My bad. If Id’ve know 2weeks earlier blah blah blah… I’m DEFINATELY going to do this, but since my halfass mix-n-match seems to have fixed my misfires for now, I’m going to wait till I replace the intake hoping I’ll stay good until then…

IMO if you’re still running injectors from the factory and you’re at a point that you’re doing a carbon clean, it’s a folly not to pony up the $900/$600.

Don’t be like me and double or even triple buy the same parts when you don’t need to. Some corners you can cut, but this isn’t one of them.

I’d offer to sell the 12 various condition injectors I’ve got so you can have a go at the rebuild at a heavy discount, but I need em for the core charge :smiley:

#12

Great first hand experience. Your post is exactly what I have seen others do. REMEMBER if you find that your missfire is for example injector 5 and 8 and you just change out injector 5 and 8 that dosent mean that the rest of the injectors are not down on flow as well. That just means you havent gotten missfire codes yet.

And bad injectors go way past damaged cats and 02s. They take out motors and are a small killer on the RS4s

#13

When I had all my top end services back in February I also got these injectors from JHM. I can’t confirm if they came with a flow sheet as they went straight to the shop where I had the work done. I am still waiting for the core credit to come through…

#14

Finally got an answer on the core credit - there was some damage done to each of my injectors during removal and as such were unable to be credited. I received a nice, explaining and apologetic email from JHM with pictures and have since spoken to the shop manager where all the work was completed on my S6. He was very apologetic and offered me the $300 core credit on his own without hesitation.

It did take over a month from shipping the injectors back to get this process started, so if you do go the core exchange route, be patient.

So, in the end, as a customer, I am all sorted out…