Intro - Colorado B7 S4

B6/7 S4/RS4
#1

Hi all. I’ve been lurking long enough, thought I’d introduce myself. I’m on my 3rd Audi now, an '06 S4 in Dolphin Grey. My old B6 went to the (former) girlfriend and before that I’d cut my teeth on a B5. That old B5 was what started the love affair, seeing how solid a car it was even after 17 years and close to 200k miles. The ‘upgrade’ a few years ago to the B6 definately wouldn’t have made me a fan, what with the way the 3.0 ate coil packs. Ridiculous. So it went to an old girlfriend and I’ve taken it up a notch to a V8 S4. Kind of.

When I started looking to replace my last car, I test drove a couple of 4.2’s and fell in love. One had been ridden hard and put away wet, and the other one was definately nice with only about 55K on the clock, but it was WAY overpriced and out of my budget so I decided to wait. That is until I found this one. I’m kind of taking a flyer on it though, because it’s not running. Apparently it slid off the road and went up over a curb or parking block or something, and tore up the bottom of the radiator support, snub mount, sway bar, etc. The water pump is broken and the coolant tube and lower oil pan flange took a hit. That’s where it gets to the part that makes me nervous - because the upper oil pan has a crack in it too. It stops well short of the block mating surface so I’m hoping the block is alright. But I don’t know… I figure the worst case scenario is that I can part it out or put some sweet S4 parts into the next one. I don’t like to think that way though. If I did, I wouldn’t have bought it. I think this can be fixed and I can be in an S4 for a couple thousand less than market.

The details aren’t anything special: It’s got ~87,000 on it, no nav, and carbon fiber trim inside. I KNOW it’ll be a sweet ride when its fixed though - I remember test driving one of those others and thinking “This is what a car is supposed to be!” Yeah… solid, balanced, powerful, comfortable… Dr. Jekyl / Mr. Hyde.

My current reality though, is that I’ve got a $5000 hunk of sh*t costing me $250/mo in storage and I want to get it fixed and enjoy it. My plan is to pull the engine and get the timing service done. That’ll let me know what I’m working with. As long as it’s solid, I’ll put it back together with upgrades to things like the swaybar, mounts and exhaust.

I’m mechanically inclined enough to be able to pull the engine, but then I feel like I should turn it over to someone who’s got some experience with these engines to look it over and do the timing. If anybody’s got a recommendation in the Denver area I’d love to hear it. Any other useful or encouraging advice is welcome too but if all you’ve got is “you’re an idiot” or “A fool and his money…” crap, I’d invite you to keep it to yourself.

Thanks all - peace, out.

#2

Welcome to the forum your in the right place. You might get that your an idiot crappie on the other forums but this forum is big on technical guys who love cars. Don’t get me wrong if you do something incredibly stupid people will let you know. But loving a great car and trying to save this one will get you lots of support.

If you feel somewhat confident in your ability to pull the motor and try the job your in the right place. More guys here have pulled motors and dome timing service then anywhere else. We can all help you look the car over and get some idea on what your working with.

If you really just want to have a company service the car for you consider shipping the car to Jhm. They are the kings of this kind of work and they will probably have tins of the parts you need replaced available as used parts. They are also the top shop for finding the fixed for all the timing chain issues. So the money you might spend shipping the car there would be saved by all the extra parts they have and there experience.

#3

Glad to see another S4 from here in CO. I’m new to AR as well but not at all to the local Audi community here. I agree that JHM would do the best work on your engine but I’m not sure if you’re in a position to ship your car to Cali. If you want to stay local, Berg performance is the shop you should go to. Aaron and his team are renowned for their perfectionist work and low labor rates.

However, since you’re mechanically inclined enough to pull the engine, I say go for it and DIY. JHM includes amazing instructions for how to do the timing if you buy one of their kits. I’m confident you could do it in your garage. I certainly will be doing so in the next couple weeks. You can always count on anyone in the Audi community to help you out as well if you get stuck.

#4

Welcome, great intro. Now we just need some pictures :wink:

Shipping to JHM sucks but they are the best. I shipped my car to them to get work done and I’ll be driving back there in a few weeks to get more work done.

#5

Thank for the welcome guys. I’ve been lurking long enough to know I’m in the right place. There’s a lot of technical knowledge here and not much of the juvie garbage. I appreciate the shop recommendation as well as the DAY suggestion. Honestly, I’d like to go that route but don’t want to end up getting in over my head. I had less than 100 miles on that old By before I did the timing belt on it and never hesitated or second guessed myself but I don’t know - the 4.2 looks a lot more intimidating and I’ve read stuff here about locking the cams down and snapping saddles and forgetting o-rings and stuff. Said another way, I’m on the fence. I know what I don’t know, but I also know it’s only scary the first time. Right?

Are the instructions from JHM detailed enough to walk a person through it? (Procedure, pics, torque specs, subassemblies, etc) I don’t have a Bentley manual for the car because I’ve never been impressed with Chilton books like that in the past. Is a Bentley indispensable for the job or would a reasonably mechanically inclined person with a little experience be able to figure it out?

Thank for the input and advice. I’m planning on getting the thing up on stands this weekend and getting started. I wish I had a lift in my back yard like SOME people… then again, I wish I had a back yard. Haha.

#6

There are lots of options. Between the directions and this forum you should be good. Just take a few days and if you get stuck we can jump In. Or try exploring see what you see and if it’s looks back slap the car together and ship it off to get dome.

Obviously a company like jhm sees more of this work in one week then you will see in several lifetimes so if you feel uncomfortable or get stuck you know you have someone there to help dig you out.

#7

Ok, so it seems like it’s been forever but I wanted to wait until I had parts from JHM in hand before I got into the nuts and bolts of it and updated here. Apparently JHM’s machine shop was a little behind in making the sprockets for the mechanical adjusters and they had to wait before they could fulfill my order. Water under the bridge, and I’m a happy camper.

While I was waiting I did some preliminary stuff like dropping the exhaust, piggied my DP’s and got things like the starter and lower trans bolts out. Yesterday I pulled the engine and today will dig in to the dissassembly (valve covers, coolant tube, timing covers, etc.

Question: does the intake manifold have to come off? It looks like I’d be able to pull the upper timing covers without having to disturb it. Is there any reason I should?

I’ve got a couple of pics but the board says the upload folder is full. Help? (It could have something to do with me trying to post from my phone yesterday and trying to attach them when they were like 4MB each)

#8

I think it’s a pretty good idea to pull the intake manifold off. You could pull it apart and clean the inside. I did that and was surprised at how dirty mine was inside. Also, that’d let you change the valley pan gasket, oil check valves and sprayer jet. That little bit of maintenance is well-worth it and takes like 30 minutes to do. I’m not actually 100% certain that it’s necessary to do so in order to remove the timing covers though

As for pictures, I’d suggest uploading to a site like imgur or flickr and then just adding in the links using the embed picture button when you post

Let me know if you need any help. I’m always willing to stop by and help another Colorado 4.2 owner

#9

Thanks pwest I may call on you before it’s all said and done. I just got to the storage unit where the car is and started poking and looking a little more closely. It looks like the IM has to come off because the throttle body housing is in the way of getting the oil filter housing off and the oil filter hhousing has to come off to get at the top bolts of the main timing cover.

Gotta love Audi engineers - they must enjoy peeling onions in their spare time.

#10

Lol, you’re definitely right! I’ll pm you my number

Also, Happy 4th!

#11

mike you do need to take the intake off. it will be helpful on some of the other work your going to do. The oil jet isnt something that fails often but to save time if you take off your oil oilfiter housing and you see oil all the way at the top of the block your jets are fine

its best to take your time and take your time and take your time. keep good track of your bolts and just be orginized. we are here if you need help. Feel free to jump on here if you feel lost

#12

for posting pics

http://audirevolution.net/image_uploader.php

you were just hitting the wrong link. This one is easy. just dont name your pictures anything too long or crazy it dosent like that

#13

Pic test - ready to pull

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/593158166.jpg

#14

Sweet! It’s not real without pics, so here’s some visuals…
Engine on the hook

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/256066399.jpg

Look at me - I’m a stripper!

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/680955486.jpg

It’s only scary the first time

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/752771264.jpg

What?? 88K mi and no crack?

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/885189458.jpg

Questions about the next pic: Did I screw up the electric adjuster? I hit the wire with the cheater bar when I was loosening the mechanical adjuster bolt on the other side. Is there a way to test these or do I just pull the wallet out? Second question: The umm… “thing” on the face of the mechanical adjuster that gets captured by the bolt - I didn’t mark it’s position before I loosened the bolt, and when the bolt’s loose it spins around. It’s not keyed or registered in any way that I could tell. Can it be positioned wherever it ends up when I tighten the bolt again or does it need to be lined up somehow?

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/95132038.jpg

Mechanical adjusters didn’t show any wallowing out. That, coupled with the weak guide not being cracked kind of makes me think this service has been done before. Thoughts?

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/625719007.jpg

…then the storms came, so I covered everything and knocked off for the day. I’ll clean things up tomorrow and put the covers back on, but now I’m thinking I should order the intake spacers from JHM. Are they worth the money? If I don’t order them, are the metal intake gaskets ok to reuse or should I get new ones? I’m anxious to get the engine back in so I can start on the rest of the car’s damage, but I’m going to order a LWFW and clutch anyway, so letting it sit isn’t going to kill me either.

Good advice JustIncredible. Take your time take your time take your time. It really isn’t that bad of a project. PWest - even if I don’t call on this part of the project, there’s more to fix and I’ll probably want to get together to look at things on your car so I know what this one needs.

#15

Looking good man! Yeah you can let me know any time when you want to check my engine out. I’ll be leaving town on Tuesday but any time before that should be fine.

As for that Cam position sensor wheel, don’t worry. It’ll get aligned when you’re putting all the new timing stuff on and when you time the engine. It’s what that weird looking tool is used for.

#16

Yesterday was a good time. Literally. I set the timing, turned things over 2x and the cam lock bars slid right back in like buttah. After the good time timing I sat down and started cleaning gasket surfaces and realized I can’t put the covers back on until I replace the damaged upper oil pan. So I shifted gears (car pun).

I dropped the lower, got all the bolts out of the upper and then looked around to make sure it was free to drop before I started trying to separate it from the block. Saw the alternator bracket and water pump bridging from the block to the upper oil pan and started taking them off.

2 questions came up: One, I wiggled and gently pried the water pump about 3/8" away from its seated position and it stopped. Do I need to disconnect something besides the four bolts that hold it on or do I just need to pry harder? Second question - the grime on the block makes it look like the power steering pump may have been seeping a little. Is there an o-ring or seal between it and the block/PTO? If so, I’d like to change it while I’m right there, so is there anything I should know about pulling the PS pump?

Sitting on my bucket scraping gaskets before I went to meet PWest (great cake and your project is looking fantastic) left me with a sunburned back. I tried the salve of ordering intake spacers and a 3R clutch from JHM but the relief was only temporary. It hurts like h*ll today right where my belt is. I wish I could wear shorts to work…

Timing the right head

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/300165237.jpg

Initial torque on the left bank

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/695225131.jpg

Final torque - right bank

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/357735450.jpg

After rotating crank 2x - perfect!

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/174756204.jpg

#17

Thats great work and it all looks really well done.

On the water pump it might be hitting or getting caught on something. It should slide out semi clean as long as your takeing out the front pump.

Pulling the pump isnt hard but its connected to the shaft and gears on the back of the motor. I don’t think there is going to be a leak on the ps pump but the braided line might be starting to leak

#18

It’s been awhile so here’s an update (no pics though, sorry).

I left off trying to get the water pump out so I could replace the upper oil pan. When I put myself back on the car project I reseated the water pump and just wiggled and gently pried it right out. Who would’ve thought paying attention to keep it perfectly straight as it came out would make such a difference? (face palm)

Got the upper oil pan switched out and resealed and then tried to put the water pump that hates me back on. What a pain in the butt trying to get both ends of the shaft engaged at the same time. I finally figured out there was about 1/4" of the shaft exposed in the upper oil pan so I grabbed it with some needle nose pliers and wiggled and turned it until things slid together. Note to self - if I ever have to change the water pump, drop the lower oil pan to make it easier.

With the water pump in place the oil pan and alternator went on and I broke out the LWFW and 3R clutch from JHM. What a beautiful hunk of metal! I blue-loctite’d all the bolts and after turning them down to first contact I wanted to torque them in stages to walk the flywheel on. I set the torque wrench at 45nm for the first pass but then my allen bit stripped out inside its socket on the 2nd to last bolt. I didn’t want the Loctite to set so I hurried to NAPA to get a bit, got back and finished the last two bolts, went around and added the 90* in a star pattern and started to put the clutch and pressure plate on. When I picked up the wrench to torque the pp I saw it was still at 45nm. Crap! In all the chaos I’d forgotten to go around the second time at 60nm before adding the 90*. I decided it’d be alright though - that the 90* added enough stretch so the 15nm under-torque wouldn’t be an issue and went ahead and got the clutch and pp on.

Later that night, I was reading JimmyBones’ DIY article here on AR on transmission/clutch DIY and saw words to the effect that “improper torque and failing to use red Loctite were the two primary causes of problems with this combo”. Shit…shitshitshit. I’d talked myself into believing the torque would be ok, but I used blue loctite, not red. With both of the most common causes of trouble going on, the next time I went to the car I took it all off and re-did it. It’s all correct and good to go now.

I finished by wrapping the bottom of the intake manifold and throttle body with heat shielding the way pwest15 did his. Next time I work on the car I’ll set the IM on its new spacers, put the valve covers on and get the engine setting on its new Stern mounts again. Until then…

peace, out.

#19

Mike good for you. Most people in that case would have just told themselves everything would be find and gone on with the job. We have all read for years about how a select few have issues with there clutches. only to find out the biggest issue was actually them and there install.