I think they will be more likely than the first gen. Every platform has shown this.
I think Jspazz thinks that only bigshots who bought the car new will go stage III and that only these bigshots can afford the premium price APR wants to charge. I don’t think it’s true, but guess time will tell.
Cost I assume… Most (not all) individuals with the necessary disposable income to drop $13-17k at once on a S/C kit + supporting mods tend to buy new cars and not keep them for long (3-4yrs). The secondary owners, at this point, still will need to pay a relatively hefty price tag for a used B8 S4 and, as others have said, the value proposition between stage 2+ and stage 3+ is enormous especially for a cost conscious consumer…
Guys, I love this type of conversation… Strategic thinking mixed with fast cars FTMFW!
Karma bump for all… ;D
I’m still looking to see how the power is made in this motor, let’s see why I guess 50-70 whp.
Consider that the reasonable limit on the TVS series is 2.4 pressure ratio, and we are almost at around 2.25 already with the 1320 (say that equates to about (2.25-1)*14.5-0.5psig intercooler pressure loss=17.6 psig seen on the IM). So if we go from 2.25 to 2.4 pressure ratio, we are making another…what…2 psi? Let’s give them the benefit of the doubt and say they can push 2.5 PR, so 3.6 psi extra or 21.2 psig IM pressure. That’s a gain of 3.6psig/(14.5+17.6) = 11%. 11% denser air due to compression in the IM.
Ok sure there will be an additional temperature drop due to blower compressor efficiency being in a sweeter spot. So lets say we then get 30 degree C cooler air out of this blower, guess from 100 degrees C outlet to 70C outlet from the blower (this is pre-intercooler, remember). So (70+273)/(100+273) is 8 percent denser air due to cooling .
So 19% more air. Thats 19% more “frictionless” power (like what VCDS measures), not wheel or even crank power rating. Let’s be safe and call that 15%. That would give us 69 WHP up from the 1320 .
But again, we’re forgetting one last factor. The 1740 blower will be harder to spin, who knows but it may consume 50HP trying to push these flows at max PR. Let’s guess it will consume 10 hp more when pushing air at full 2.4PR 17000 rpm compared to the 1320 at 2.2PR and 20000RPM. So losing that last 10 HP puts us at ~60 whp gain .
They basically admitted they went to develop other platforms, asides from Arin drumming up interest with his car, 2013 was a blueball year for us. There’s not a ton to develop once the blower is cast and installed. Throw it on and calibrate and refine the tune. It’s not like it takes race teams 2 years to get their car running or anything. Just other priorities for them.
The second S4 owner, come next year, is the guy that won’t pay $12-15,000 for a blower. Those guys are gone to other platforms. The second owner will get wheels, springs, intake, exhaust. stage II, and then after blowing $10K will wait for a cheaper solution or prices to come down. Then once the blower OEM starts casting it for others, the gig is up and prices will fall. That will happen sooner than you think.
Anyhow my main point was to bitch about it, I think you understood that…
More or less, yes.
One things for sure, the market is massive. Will be bigger than the 2.7T by my estimations…
So you’re measuring boost or pressure at the manifold…using the stock manifold restrictive setup, even though it’s being completely redesigned?
Boost or pressure is a measure of the restriction in the system and will change if you change components, yes? So why are we basing everything on stock 1320 manifold setup from Audi when it’s being completely redesigned?
The numbers alone of 3.0T S4s sold are probably 10 fold the 2.7T, so that’s an easy thing to say.
One thing you mentioned earlier though is that nobody has killed a 1320 yet. That’s key…because the biggest driver of K04 and stage 3 B5 S4 upgrades was not the quest for power…it was dead K03 turbos. The motor had to come out, so while you’re looking for replacements do you buy $2400 K03s or $2900 K04s? Siple decision. K04
That’s one thing lots of people are not thinking about. The 1320 is excellent and makes the car fast enough to scare anyone, and almost fast enough to make the track tell you to put a roll bar in (11.49). There’s nothing really compellling to force it out of the car for a 1740 or 1900.
I guess we’ll just have to see whether APR knows what it’s doing. Neither of us are privy to the type of market research they’ve conducted. I tend to think they are not at risk of losing potential customers by delaying their Stage III kit for a little while longer. And statements like this would seem to support my view . . .
See bear I think you’re the perfect example. If stage III was out this June would you have dumped your car and gone with the M3? I’m willing to guess yes but maybe I’m wrong.
And are you going to supercharge that beast?
I say no chance he would have stage 3d and held on. He upgraded his experience with the M3, but went backwards probably 50 - 75 hp and a chunk of performance. He didn’t make the change because he was impatiently waiting for his B8 S4 to go faster. He made the change because he didn’t want to own a B8 S4 anymore. He had a list as long as your arm of cars, and non of them were anything like a B8 S4.
GTR
C63
M3
RS5
All pretty much the polar opposites of the B8 S4. He wanted something different entirely.
I’m only basing it on pressure ratios across the blower. But I didn’t see the intercoolers being a ton bigger so I don’t think there’s much gain there and I don’t think the factory set up is all that restrictive. They had to make a new module no matter what because the 1320 is cast into it.
Most of the measure of pressure is because of the cams and the intake valve flow, not the intake manifold.
Shops got their start modifying the 2.7T, that’s why I brought that up. Hopefully some new shops (not JFonz) will come up that will give people some options with the amount of cars out there.
I agree with the rest… Would be funny if the 1320 started failing left and right
I guess I was quoting APRs dyno since it is going to be their product and some what controlled being on the same dyno as the previous ones
I’m not sure about the primetime time but i don’t doubt it.
I agree with your 120mph trap on pump, but I don’t think the 11.4 will come with pump even with dsg. Maybe 11.5x at best if your primetime theory above is correct. I am thinking 11.6.
What complicates it all is the large variance on how this platform responds to race gas with DSG. APR has to run a fully modded race gas DSG car (stripped down for the shock value times). I think the problem is that Arin’s car is a 6MT, but not sure.
They should just give a kit to prime, and 81bear for the epic times to market their product!
But APR isn’t developing a Stage III option for the M3. 
??? M3!? since when…
Ya, i was grinding MBA courses…missed that. My bad
Yup probably would have still dumped it… The S4 is/was a great car but if I’m being honest I don’t miss it at all anymore…
When I first bought the M3 I would have said hands down yes to the biggest baddest S/C. In fact, I felt that the performance per dollar value proposition on bolt-on mods were terrible. It can cost $8k+ for marginal gains 35-45hp and similar TQ. For that kinda coin you can basically get a lower end S/C and gain 100hp+, far better value. However, now that I’ve driven the M3 for a while I’m starting to really get what it’s all about, the overall driving experience! ;D
So now to answer your question yes I’m still thinking about getting a S/C kit but it will probably be in the form of one of the more mild versions (540-580hp) and further look to upgrading the suspension and brakes to keep the overall balance I’ve grown to love…
[quote=“bigserve134,post:32,topic:5016”]
I approve of this point… LOL
Did anyone else see the dyno video of the twin charged S4 posted in that apr teaser thread?
Yeah, I wonder if the twin-charged car has a larger-than stock pulley for the supercharger to deal with the heat. I’m guessing the turbo charging has to be the input to the supercharger which in turn feeds the intake manifold? The other way around doesn’t seem feasible with the way the TVS blower sits on top of the motor.