BS, I run stock pistons, I have built 20 plus 2.7 varients with stock pistons and just rods with a quality rebuild and they hold up fine. They are a mahle forged piston and are leaps and bounds better quality and metallurgical properties than most after market like JE and diamond.
You sure do pump out a lot of fucking misinformation.
lol I’m not responding for him. He responded already on the previous page. I just saw that you asking the same question again wasn’t going to get (further) answered. I’ve seen this happen before.
Here’s CV’s post in case you missed it…
You replied for him 5 mins after my first post to him (post #24). I haven’t asked him the same thing more than that 1 time, I’ve been replying to your attempts to answer for him. He can choose to reply (or not) for himself, and clarify (or not) the stuff that he vaguely refers to so that it might be beneficial rather than just a “I’ve seen some stock pistons fail” and “we should consider the piston design cause they are not properly supporting the requirements of the piston functions.” If he wants to make the info that he knows useful to the forums, let him; if not, you don’t need to try to answer for him. This conversation that I’m trying to have has nothing to do with you.
You keep focusing on catastrophic failures when that’s not what he alluded to. I believe CV is saying the pistons may survive in that environment, but may not be the best choice for these big power builds (this thread is about a 700whp/800 crank hp build remember). To me that’s what he’s pointing out…not warning you that your pistons are going to flare the skirts and fuck things up. He’s saying you’re leaving a part in that should be improved upon.
So go nuts. Ask away. I’d like to hear more detail on the answer too. I just get the distinct impression we’re not going to hear it. CV has a history of avoiding discussions like this on the forums for a number of reasons, one of which is to not spoon feed the competition (by posting everything publicly) some of the information he has worked hard to learn.
I’m not focusing only on catastrophic failure, my post specifically asks about what “supporting” piston roles he feels are inadequate with the stock pistons compared to the aftermarket options for the B5. Funny, I also have the distinct impression that he’s not going to reply, now that it’s been unnecessarily blown up into a big deal. However, I’d definitely like more info if he’s willing, because all we have otherwise is virtually a completely one-sided successful track record for running stock pistons with upgraded rods at the power level detailed in the OP. More data points are always welcome.
lol damn…I was looking at the time on the quoted post, not your actual post. My bad.
anyway, don’t blame this ‘getting blown up’ (a bit dramatic, isn’t it?) on not getting an answer. If I’m wrong and he was going to lay his information all out there, that’s awesome…and he still will.
If he never was, he won’t.
I just have a bit more experience trying to drag information out of the Count…it’s tough! Again, by all means, continue to ask your question. PM him, post in this thread. I just offered my opinion on what was happening. I’ll try not to as it pertains to helping you B5 guys in dealing with the count. Didn’t work very well when trying to give advice to Notorious on the matter, and it appears to be upsetting you here.
Just PM him… People are often a lot more willing to talk about things that they don’t necessarily want to say on a public board. The most useful information I get from forums is rarely what’s publicly posted.
that’s because you’re used to audizine’s 3.0 A4 section lol 
[quote=“sakimano,post:36,topic:3407”]
Let this be your last reply to this tangent then. As like I said, I’m not trying to get info from you, and if Count doesn’t want to share his, that’s his prerogative.
I’m not looking for any information that he wouldn’t want to say on a public board. My personal engine is already built, so the information isn’t necessarily going to benefit me with build decisions, rather it would need to be posted publicly to benefit future engine builders. I was hoping he’d share the failures he’s seen, so we can add them to the data set that up til now pretty much unanimously says that the stock pistons are very well suited for the power level the OP was inquiring about.
[quote=jibberjive]the data set that up til now pretty much unanimously says that the stock pistons are very well suited for the power level the OP was inquiring about.
[/quote]
Really? The OP said this a few times:
I have to ask…how many B5 S4s have ever even made 800 crank hp (maybe 650-700 whp)? And how many of them made that power level (succesfully) on stock pistons? Honest questions…I was under the impression that 650-700 whp (800 crank hp) was not exactly ‘common’…so this ‘data set’ you are referencing might be smaller than something from which to reliably draw a conclusion, no?
To be honest, the OP has no idea what he’s doing and it’s changing completely daily even though the car was supposed to have been torn down last week. Though having said that, the original post of this thread says GT or Tial turbos. Some of the highest powered Tial 770 cars (the biggest turbo Tial offers for the B5) have been stock pistons (Gearhead dyno’d 676whp, and D-shot dyno’d like 666whp IIRC), and there have been plenty of GT turbo’d B5 S4’s with stock pistons. If, at the end of the day, the OP actually makes 700+whp (though his clutch setup will slip well before being able to put down near that power, ask me how I know), I’ll buy you a steak dinner. Also, if you see my post #26, the only time I mention a specific horsepower I say 500-600whp, like 99% of the Tial builds make. If I were to personally build a motor that I was going to go well over 600whp, I’d almost definitely replace the pistons, if it were me. If I was going less than that, I wouldn’t replace the pistons, as the stock Mahle’s have proven to be reliable, and by keeping the stock pistons it takes out some of the other human factors that can make an engine build go bad (ie. you just have to hone the cylinders and replace the rings, rather than rely on the engine builder to correctly bore the block while keeping in mind correct piston-wall clearance etc). Of course, a competent engine builder shouldn’t have any issues either way, but for me it’s more of a ‘the less things that have the potential go wrong the better’, which keeping stock pistons accomplishes (on top of being cheaper and proven reliable).
OK, so if you were building a car to the OP’s (ever changing and very fluid) expectations, you would upgrade the pistons.
Granted this is a very odd thread/build all around. It has changed from ‘I have 770s’ to ‘what turbos should I get’ to ‘I’m getting something secret’.
Will be interesting to see if it ever runs. Wonder which car will be running first…this one, or guruman.
If I were building a car with the hardware listed in the original post of this thread (the original post doesn’t list a power level, it lists hardware [“GT’s or Tials”]), I would not worry about replacing the pistons. The stock ones would likely be fine in that scenario.
Just a quick update. I’m waiting for my coated pistons from 034 Motorsports. Once they’re ready the rebuild can begin.
JHM…what are they doing?
Sounds like RS6R
I told them what my goals are and they’re taking it from there. I would have paid double for pistons if I could have had them sooner. I know I’m being impatient but I’m getting so tired of waiting for this project to begin. Tomorrow is three weeks without my car now. Next time I’ll definitely buy a block and have it rebuilt instead of doing what I did here.
You are in for a world of hurt if 3 weeks bums you out.
I agree with this. Seems CV gave enough information to start a new conversation or to possibly look into a direction that people are not looking. Also if your pulling out the rods I agree it might be time to just do the pistons on pure principle. When your 100% over the stock whp I’m thinking it might not be a bad Idea to look at a piston or to investigate the proper piston for that hp level.
It just seems not much has changed in the B5 world since I left. People seem to be all over the place with there conclusions and theory debates.
While I certainly don’t know where the stock pistons give out I do agree that we might want to start to ask more questions before we feel comfortable at any level
Damn 034 is doing stuff for the B5’s now? Seriously JHM and 034 have been good shops for years. 034 has been the leader in the 5cyl game for a long time. I would feel comfortable with there suggestions and directions.
3 weeks with absolutely nothing done wouldn’t bum you out? I gave them a list of parts to buy for the rebuild - three weeks ago. They could have ordered the parts, had them shipped and started working on the engine by now. Instead - absolutely nothing has happened. That’s why I’m bummed out. Unreasonable?
lol
these builds never seem to be done on schedule. I think that’s what he was inferring. 3 weeks is nothing. 3 months is nothing.