lol
[quote]but if it is turtled, the gull-style “falcon doors” have enough hinges in them that Tesla thinks the the car will still be escapable.
[/quote]
Key word is “thinks”
Hopefully they think harder than Lamborghini did…
http://i.imgur.com/R5jcNyc.jpg
here’s the NSFW version
Holy crap. I did not expect to see that. That’s just horrible.
I’d like to see the model X in person. My biggest gripe with the model S was it didn’t feel like a premium product at that price. I don’t care about all the promises musk wants to make, but I am curious if their product development chops are improving.
I said the same thing after I checked one out a year ago. So did westwest. I believe he said it was ‘Cadillac quality’.
Interesting to see what happens after 30 mph
Not good for Tesla, so I will warn westwest888 not to watch as this may destroy his perception of it as a super car killer. Let’s watch it slay some supercars!
Start with an easy kill for the 700hp Tesla. A 5 year old Ferrari 458.
https://youtu.be/r9MnsFBXl-c
Oops. Nope
991 GT3?
https://youtu.be/vTkE3PpCgfw
Nope
Rs7? Same size, shape, but the audi has 140 hp less. It’s a sure kill for the struggling Tesla.
https://youtu.be/ABic0vQtgwc
Nope
Geez…ok new M4? Sure it’s half the price and down 275 hp but we are trying to find something a Tesla can beat from 30-100…
https://youtu.be/2-SRHxcpG6I
Nope
But… But Tesla has 700 hp though…right? No, it makes a bunch of torque and sucks at everything else. It’s a $130,000 government subsidized big turbo diesel pickup. Great off the line and a physics nightmare everywhere else.
The 700hp sounds like a B5 built from parts from china that was only dyno tested once
…or a Russian tuner dragcar on dragtimes.info youtube channel…they throw around random HP numbers like its nothing. Always rounded up to the next 100…or 200 lol.
Personally I don’t get how Tesla came up with 700 hp (691 bhp). Sure it makes bucketloads of torque, but that’s not HP. HP is a measured value of work, calculating crank revolutions x torque / 5252. It is not something you invent.
Tesla’s cars make epic torque levels…but high hp cars shine up top, not down low. I think when they were making up their power stats, they made a mistake.
It’s probably something like the equivalent of 700 ftlbs of torque and 450 hp. Again…like a big-turbo diesel pickup truck.
Hey, did anyone mention this a few pages back?
Lots of cars are great when brand new and being tested (the Tesla scored 100 on the Consumer Reports test). Of course not many people go to Consumer Reports for NEW car ratings but that’s an aside. Same goes for 90 days (JD power measures ‘quality’ after 90 days…which is relevant to nobody).
The true measure of quality is shown when we can see 1, 2, 5, and even 10 years of reliability data from million of subscribers and thousands of model owners, presented in a magazine that takes no advertising. Only then will we get to the truth.
Looks like Tesla just got it’s report card back from thousands of Tesla owners…and it’s terrible.
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-consumer-reports-tesla-models-20151020-story.html
Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S
http://www.trbimg.com/img-562666ac/turbine/la-tesla20-wre0031094023-20150916/750/750x422
Jerry HirschContact Reporter
Consumer Reports withdrew its recommendation for the Tesla Model S — a car the magazine previously raved about — because of poor reliability for the sporty electric sedan.
The turnabout comes after the influential consumer magazine handed the luxury car a “worse-than-average” rating in its annual report on the predicted reliability of new vehicles issued Tuesday.
The news sent Tesla Motors stock down as much as $23.77, more than 10%, to $204.33 in mid-day trading.
See the most-read stories this hour >>
Consumer Reports surveyed 1,400 Model S owners “who chronicled an array of detailed and complicated maladies” with the drivetrain, power equipment, charging equipment and giant iPad-like center console. They also complained about body and sunroof squeaks, rattles and leaks.
“As the older vehicles are getting up on miles, we are seeing some where the electric motor needs to be replaced and the onboard charging system won’t charge the battery,” said Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports’ director of automotive testing. “On the newer vehicles, we are seeing problems such as the sunroof not operating properly. Door handles continue to be an issue.”
Fisher said the flaws could signal future problems for the brand, which plans to roughly double production next year. It has just begun deliveries of a second vehicle, the Model X electric crossover, and intends to introduce the Model 3, a smaller, less expensive electric car, in 2017.
Through the first nine months of the year, the automaker has delivered only 33,117 vehicles. Current Tesla models sell for about $100,000.
“Going forward, this poses the question whether they will be able to keep quality up as they increase volume and add models to the mix,” he said.
The risk is significant because the vehicles are becoming more complex, he said. For example, a signature feature of the Model X are “Falcon Wing” doors that swing out and fold up. Fisher asked how reliable those will be if Tesla already is having trouble with door handles.
Elon Musk’s Tesla
Elon Musk’s Tesla
While wealthy Tesla owners are likely to have other cars, making problems less of a hassle, if Tesla reaches its 2020 goal of selling several hundred thousand Model 3s annually, buyers might not be as forgiving, Fisher said.
Tesla spokesman Ricardo Reyes said the Palo Alto automaker keeps in close communication with its customers to “proactively address issues, and quickly fix problems.”
He noted that over-the-air software updates allow Tesla to diagnose and fix most bugs without the need to come in for service.
“In instances when hardware needs to be fixed, we strive to make it painless,” Reyes said. “Consumer Reports also found that customers rate Tesla service as the best in the world.”
Consumer Reports slammed Tesla’s Model S on reliability even though it loves the way the car drives.
Just last month, the magazine awarded one version of the car — the all-wheel-drive Tesla Model S P85D — 103 points, a tally so high it broke the Consumer Reports road-test ratings system. Its driving performance was better than any other vehicle the magazine has evaluated.
This is for the environmentally retarded folks who think Teslas are ‘green’
zero emissions? what about the source of the electricity? Or the environmental destruction regarding the creation of the batteries?
Some smarter people in Norway said 'let’s look at the environmental impact of an Electric Vehicle vs. a gasoline vehicle from production to it’s lifecycle and then to recycling.
The net result was only a 10-20% environmental beit of an EV, and that’s ONLY if you use the European mix of highly efficient and low impact electricity sources.
How about if you live in Ohio? Oh your Tesla is actually 30% WORSE than a gasoline powered vehicle of similar size lololol
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1530-9290.2012.00532.x/full
Summary
Electric vehicles (EVs) coupled with low-carbon electricity sources offer the potential for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and exposure to tailpipe emissions from personal transportation. In considering these beits, it is important to address concerns of problem-shifting. In addition, while many studies have focused on the use phase in comparing transportation options, vehicle production is also significant when comparing conventional and EVs. We develop and provide a transparent life cycle inventory of conventional and electric vehicles and apply our inventory to assess conventional and EVs over a range of impact categories. We find that EVs powered by the present European electricity mix offer a 10% to 24% decrease in global warming potential (GWP) relative to conventional diesel or gasoline vehicles assuming lifetimes of 150,000 km. However, EVs exhibit the potential for significant increases in human toxicity, freshwater eco-toxicity, freshwater eutrophication, and metal depletion impacts, largely emanating from the vehicle supply chain. Results are sensitive to assumptions regarding electricity source, use phase energy consumption, vehicle lifetime, and battery replacement schedules. Because production impacts are more significant for EVs than conventional vehicles, assuming a vehicle lifetime of 200,000 km exaggerates the GWP beits of EVs to 27% to 29% relative to gasoline vehicles or 17% to 20% relative to diesel. An assumption of 100,000 km decreases the beit of EVs to 9% to 14% with respect to gasoline vehicles and results in impacts indistinguishable from those of a diesel vehicle. Improving the environmental profile of EVs requires engagement around reducing vehicle production supply chain impacts and promoting clean electricity sources in decision making regarding electricity infrastructure.
Problem shifting. I like that term.
I remember a LOOOOOooong time ago I remember reading an article about paper containers vs foam containers as take out food options (which is ‘greener’). The market was concerned that foam containers don’t breakdown very quickly (which is a valid concern), and paper would be a better choice (with an asterisk) since it eventually breaks down. But the overall impact of manufacturing paper vs foam sided with foam for being the ‘lesser evil’ (specifically from a manufacturing standpoint).
Though now we have compost (but I too do wonder what the impact of it’s manufacturing would be).
Edit: 1000th post! 
Nice one on 1000
Good analogy on the paper vs foam. Pretty typical to see the people focusing on what is in their hands and ignoring the big picture.
I’ll be honest, what Tesla is doing with their Autopilot feature is incredible. Irresponsible…fuck yes. But still, very impressive that they have released this feature and pretty much blown everything else out of the water in this domain. Time will tell whether this was a wise decision.
Calling something “beta” is easy to do when releasing open source software to automate your toaster, but when people’s lives are on the line, we’ll see what happens if something goes wrong. I’m no expert, but there must be consumer protection laws in place that make it so Tesla can’t blame the driver when their beta software causes a 5 car pile up and multiple deaths.
But again, very impressive that they’ve released this feature, first to market by a long shot. The videos on youtube called “OMG TESLA AUTOPILOT TRIED TO KILL ME!!!” are overdone click bait pieces. The videos of people driving around for 10 minutes are damn impressive.
http://jalopnik.com/we-set-a-cross-country-record-in-a-telsa-that-drove-its-1739410767
Audi has had an A7 with autopilot running in Nevada for 3 years. Only Audi and Google have licenses for autonomous driving I believe.
Tesla released an autopilot feature which is basically ‘autonomous light’. I’m surprised the regulators haven’t jumped all over them because Audi and Google have jumped through an incredible number of gov’t hoops to get to where they are now.
I’m roughly 90% sure what is on the A7 is a traffic jam assist type feature, which essentially only works at lower speeds. The scope of what Audi has in production is much smaller, they have shown off things at CES, but no highway driving autopilot like this exists in production. Mercedes and some others have also had this traffic jam assist tech for a while. No one allows for hands off driving for 40 minutes like Tesla. Or automated lane changes. The new E class is supposed to get something similar to autopilot, likewise super cruise on the new CT6. The closest thing I’ve seen is something Toyota research in ann arbor demo’d last year, but nothing in production https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qq0vt5NPU8
Laws governing autonomous driving vary state to state and there are definitely a lot of players who are actively developing (many suppliers are doing this). Google is more interested in Level 4 autonomy, which is defined by NHTSA and SAE as essentially go take a nap type autonomy. What Tesla is doing is level 2 autonomy, which is combines automated lateral and longitudinal control within the framework that the driver is completely responsible what happens. By the letter of the law, the manufacturer is responsible for developing a user experience that promotes driver engagement. If a tesla customer is sitting there dicking around with youtube and watching the chirstmas tree dash showing all the sensors, you can bet your ass they will be liable if the tesla rams an oncoming car because the camera or radar didn’t pick it up.
I don’t mean every A7
[quote=me]Audi has had an A7 with autopilot running in Nevada for 3 year
[/quote]
http://jalopnik.com/autonomous-audi-a7-drives-from-sf-to-vegas-probably-no-1677737814
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/08/nevada-grants-audi-third-license-to-operate-autonomous-vehicles/
See, that’s the big difference, Tesla has released this feature to essentially everyone who has a model S (with whatever sensor suite they started equipping starting a year or so ago). Both ballsy (borderline negligent) and impressive.
[quote]While Jack is technically just a concept, Audi claims all the sensors and control systems are ‘production ready’ and we can expect to see these components in cars quite soon, with the Audi Q7 getting the " hi-resolution, wide-angle 3D video camera" first.
[/quote]
I think there was also a self driving rs7 as well.
And some more reliability issues with Tesla’s Model S.
Two thirds may need to have their drivetrain replaced before 60k miles.
"But one of the biggest criticisms Tesla has faced is about its long-term reliability. Consumer Reports even went so far as to remove the Model S from its list of recommended vehicles. According to a new analysis of survey data from Plug-In America, it may even be worse than we thought. Two-thirds of early Model S drivetrains may need to be replaced before they hit 60,000 miles. "
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a18489/two-thirds-of-early-tesla-model-s/
but it’s free to fill up!