It just doesn't work: Tesla

General Discussion
#561

If you can find an asset that is undervalued in 2017, you should buy it. Maybe I will pick up a used Tesla as a commuter car and use the free electricity at work.

I think a lot of people are under the false impression they are going to buy a Model 3 for $35,000. A model 3 with dual motor and 70kWh is going to be $60k easily. When people realize that they will go into the market for a used Model S and even the price out. You can probably drive one for free and sell it for what you paid in 2 years.

#562

Hold on bud. The Tesla S40 was $52,400 after the federal tax credit. Georgia has one of the most generous state tax credits in the country, at $5000 off the car and $2500 for a home charger. So this guy paid $45,000 for a car, drove it for 4 years and experienced only $5000 of total depreciation? What the fuck did I say.

#563

that’s a 60 I think. 185 miles of total range. Can’t be a 40.

I think your concept is right (I just bought one so I think similarly) but I dont think your hyperbole is helping your argument

they won’t depreciate much, but they will depreciate. they already have. Saying you can drive one ‘for free’ isn’t reasonable at all.

It’s interesting that they keep updating sofware to improve older cars but lots of the older cars are turning out to be hardware limited.

2012-2013-2014 people are left out in the cold with respect to auto pilot and the advanced cruise control features. Their cars didn’t have the hardware necessary. One guy retrofitted it for a fortune and then re-programmed his car’s software by hacking it and another tesla he bought wrecked but that’s not going to happen for everyone.

The new cars have updated TPMS, updated autopilot hardware (although they’re having trouble rolling out a fully featured version of AP2 and the 2015-2016 cars seem to have the edge here) updated interiors and a bunch of improvements that left the early cars looking a bit shabby.

So there is certainly the argument that a car that keeps getting upgraded firmware can hold value…and one without a typical engine and transmission can as well especially when the entire drive system including batteries has an 8 year warranty…but the older cars are depreciating.

The other thing that was happening was Tesla themselves were cornering the used market and holding it afloat but that’s passed.

I like the car a lot. It’s almost worth it for the weird reactions it gets from people. I silently backed out of a parking spot last night and the guy standing beside me getting into his pickup truck mouthed a ‘what the fuck…’ as I did. He watched the car the whole way out onto the road wondering what the fuck he just saw (i don’t live in a big city where teslas are everywhere lol). And as weird as it is, I really like the quiet of the car. The thing that sucks is the road noise/wind noise. You can tell you’re not dealing with a german company with 100 years of perfecting this stuff…it’s definitely a steep learning curve. It’s not terrible but there’s a couple of noisy spots you can hear outside up near the top of the windshield and with no engine to drown it out it’s more audible.

The other element that is funny is how well you can do for range if you throw it in autopilot, tuck in 3-4 car lengths behind a big truck on the highway and cruise along at 60 mph on a long drive. You go from getting about 375 kms of range out of a full charge to 500 kms. And in autopilot you don’t feel as annoyed at going slow for some reason.

#564

Autopilot is unsafe at any speed. You don’t want those software updates. LIDAR or GTFO.

#565

lol it’s really the automatic distance control for advanced cruise control that I’m referring to.

#566

Replacing a door handle with software was a mistake http://jalo.ps/pPhK0ST

#567

In case you’re interested:

I figure on average I pay about $2.60 to drive 100 kms if I charge at home and am paying about 13 cents per kwh.

If you compare that to a car with gasoline around $1/litre

8 litres of gas / 100 kms driven (like a civic) = $8/100 kms
10 l / 100 km like a diesel GLE or our 2.0T A4 wagon = $10/100 kms
14 l / 100 kms like a big gas guzzler SUV or my RS4 = $14/ 100 kms

Etc.

So if you drive about 20,000 kms a year, you’re looking at

Tesla $520
Civic $1600
diesel GLE $2000
guzzler $2800

If you charge at Tesla superchargers (free) half the time, you can cut your Tesla cost to around $260/year (i.e. when I go on longer trips I supercharge. When the new supercharger opens near my house later this year I’ll supercharge there once in a while too).

Now…if you think the Teslas (from 75D to P100D) are all about $30,000 overpriced like I do compared to an A7-RS7 range or CLS 550-CLS 63 AMG range, the extra money you tie up and then depreciate in the Tesla alone makes the gas ‘savings’ somewhat dubious. In 5 years you’ll save about $10,000 in gas vs your leccy bill but the time value of money and the depreciation portion of your extra $30,000 premium disappears.

Then again, the Tesla depreciates far less than the equivalent Audi/MB/BM so there’s that. I believe the numbers show a tesla depreciates about 48% over 100,000 miles wihle a CLS/A7/S class/6 or 7 series depreciates more like 58-65%…and on $100,000 cars that’s a difference of $2000-3500/year in itself.

All in all, just an interesting car. Definitely a new company…they don’t know what the hell they’re doing with things like service etc (they take about a week to call you back, and about another week to get you an appointment) and they forgot to put handles in the ceiling to hold on around corners, or a hook to hang your dry cleaning or suit jacket on) but I quite like it. Will keep. I’m reasonably convinced we’ll all have at least one electric car in our garage by 2025.

#568

Poked around the R&D parking lot but didn’t see a model 3.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170506/b7909f28b3feb4af00afd11279c48ed9.jpg

#569

Saki, did you end up picking up a Tesla? Didn’t see that coming but if so congrats on the new ride! Any pics or info if so, guess I missed it or it was in a different thread. Is it in addition to your other cars or what swapped out of the stable?

#570

Hi Mad, yes, I did in March. Haven’t really posted about it. Will do so at some point. Just added it. Wasn’t sure if we’d like owning an electric car so we didn’t get rid of the other ones. Still have the RS4 and the B8 A4 Avant.

Will probably trade the RS4 and A4 in on an SQ5 or something at some point but for now standing pat. Also have a local private buyer interested in the RS4 so I’m not sure what I’ll do with it. If I had more garage space I’d keep it in perpetuity as I think it’s kind of a neat dinosaur.

#571

Very cool, look forward to hearing more about it and seeing some pictures, because the internet says pictures must be posted for it to exist. I’ve got a buddy here with one and he’s loved it, they definitely make an impression like you said. And the instant torque isn’t shabby either!

Westwest really missed an opportunity to win a coke off you owning a Tesla. Two years ago I would have thought it’d be a pretty good bet to make lol!

I’m about to trade the Wrangler. I toyed with the idea of looking at a Tesla, but it seemed to practical for my needs so I’m going to be going with a 4 door wrangler or FJ Cruiser. We’re about to need a car seat, and with the wife’s Cayenne being the only car that qualifies, it’s driven the search for something with real back seats.

#572

it should be noted that I said I’d never buy shares in the business…I don’t think it makes any sense.

I also said I think buying a new Tesla is ‘ludicrous’ as they’re way overpriced for the privilege of doing something ‘cool’. (for the record I don’t think it’s cool, just saying it’s like the in thing to have a tesla it seems, which is in itself lame)

I bought mine at an advantageous price, but I have to say there is no way I’d pay regular market price for one. I think electric is neat/cool etc. but unless you get a P85D or any PD car, they’re just cars where you fill up at home and it’s quiet. The PD cars though…they’re world beating game changers. P85D, P90D, P100D). There’s nothing close to them stock, so if you want a fancy luxury barnstormer that seats 5 and is faster than almost anything you’ll ever encounter, grab one. Just realise you’ll pay about a $30,000 premium to a regular Tesla (i.e P85D vs 85D).

The fanboys are hard to stomach. Worst I’ve ever seen really. Make the B8 S4 guys look self loathing.

#573

The 70D is still like $75k after tax benefit. They change the pricing and packaging a few times a year. On the new config, you can’t get air suspension on the 70kW.

#574

Wow! in the last 5 months this entire thread got flipped on its head! :o :o :o

#575

:smiley: was an enjoyable ride, I mean read wasn’t it? I like Tesla for what it is, but like Saki I like it more as a second or third run around car then the mainstay as it is still a bit too early for me, all things considered. I like my neat dinosaurs too much as well :wink:

Thanks for the perspectives all we really beat up all the topics, and now we have at least one tesla onboard, telsarevolution.net, or maybe create a new area here, I’m sure these cans be modded I mean hacked other than the regular Tela approved updates?

#576

I’m waiting to see what the next gen Tesla Roadster will look like and per Elon the Model S will remain the fastest until the next gen roadster.

http://cdn.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/preisert-tesla-roadster-convertible-rendering.jpg

…electric fits my drive style perfectly right now. But I wish hydrogen tech would get developed since both hydrogen and electric are reliant on solar and wind to be longterm “clean”

  1. Hydrogen has 3 times the specific energy as gas (enormous power potential!) but 6 times less energy density - Just add larger fuel tanks until tech improves to compress and store it as a liquid then re-atomize it as a fuel for a ICE
  2. Hydrogen ICE is where the power is at; hydrogen fuel-cells are shit
  3. No heavy ass batteries, no toxic mining and battery waste; only larger but lighter fuel tanks

I emailed jhm’s v8 box regarding potentially adding an electric motor to the rear wheels…they probably thought it was some april fools troll joke. Imagine a small 40kW motor added into the rear wheels with batteries lining the back half of the car balancing out the weight distribution! Obviously need to upgrade the driveline. I’d keep my car another 10 years if I could turn it into a hypercar like hybrid!

#577

I think you are on to something. I do would want to “hybrid” my cars as well, he’ll I wanted to do that to my cayenne gts, then they announced the turbo s hybrud panny and cayenne, some point thereafter it will go in the 911 ala mini 918 then before you know it on Audi then rest VAG.

Ultimately I hear you re hydrogen and electric long-term, there have been hydro buses for years time for it to trickle up then trickle down. I like clean hybrid diesels ala sq7 but likely more efficient, as well as maybe a little less reliant on overseas oil? Again the hybrids and diesel hybrids are mid-term, hydro long-term great choice. Especially if we can minimixe the effects of wind and water power.

Thoughts?

#578

Hydrogen car from Toyota. It is the ugliest car ever made, it costs like $100k with dealer markup from $60k, and it does 0-60 in 12 seconds with about 90 horsepower. There are 12 places to fill up in California. The 10,000 PSI hydrogen bleeds off in about 6 days if you don’t drive it. Yeah, it’s the future.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/a429901fab5f360746b64a86a0973b83.jpg

#579

Lol nice. How about hydrogen hybrids? Stupid or?

#580

I just drove my Tesla to Boston and back, supercharged 2x on the way down and 3x on the way back (as I was starting with only about 10% battery on the return trip whereas I was fully charged when leaving my house)

Car was great. Spent about 2hrs supercharging each way. On one of the stops we ate a meal (lunch on the way there, dinner on the way back) so we didn’t notice the inconvenience). One the other stop we made sure to plan a stop at a supercharger with a good mall so we killed the 45 minutes or so shopping. Autopilot made the drive supereasy as we didn’t use it on the way down but did on the way back.

There’s two schools of thought on supercharging on long trips

  1. make lots of 15-25 minute charging stops
  2. make a few long 50-60 minute stops

I prefer 2, but some people prefer 1. Personally I find it silly to sit there for 20 minutes then do it again 90 minutes later for 15 minutes when I could easily skip the first one and plow on to the next one arriving comfortably with charge.

I use the car’s onboard trip software which is excellent, but I also use ETRIPPLANNER because you can delete charging stops on there and it will calculate your likely state of charge on arrival at the next one etc. it takes into account which car you have, which wheels you have, the temp outside, the cabin temp, the wind, the weight of your cargo (including passengers) and is very accurate.

All in all the limitations of the electric cars are disappearing quiickly with massive range and tons of charging options. Tesla plans to build 7 superchargers within 125 miles of my house over the next 12 months. They’re doing the same across America and most of the highly populated Canadian provinces (Ontario, Quebec, British Columbia, Alberta).

It’s getting interesting.