It's not a race thing...it's a criminal thing. Why can't people figure that out

General Discussion
#1

This whole race thing over these 3 ‘black men’ who died at the hands of police is really annoying to watch. I read the evidence in all 3 cases (where possible…the third is too new) and it seems they weren’t killed for being black. They were killed for being criminals…or for being stupid.

Scenario 1 - Michael Brown
Robs a liquor store
Mouths off to a cop
Punches the cop’s face loose and tries to grab his gun
Succesfully turns the gun towards the cop in the fight, tries for the trigger, but the cop turns it away and gets a shot off that hits Brown’s hand
Brown runs
Cop pursues
Brown stops, turns to face cop who orders him down, while gun is drawn and pointed at Brown
Brown runs at cop (with hands down, not up) full speed
Cop backpedals and fires a number of shots, killing Brown

FIRST THINGS FIRST: The hands up shit was BULLSHIT. If you still believe this you need to read the grand jury evidence. There were 3 people who gave the hands up story, none of whom were there when the cop shot him other than Mike Brown’s co-conspirator, who also aided in attacking the cop (yes, there is evidence of this too, that nobody is talking about). All three of the people who gave this bulllshit made up story were seen talking together before they gave this story to the media outlets who showed up. Knowing the one was Brown’s criminal buddy, and he told the other two girls (who weren’t there) it is shocking that anyone believed these fucking morons. The story was made up to villify the cop and make excuses for Mike Brown, and all three were proven liars by the physical evidence and by other witnesses whose testimony matched the physical evidence and the cop’s testimony.

Did he kill Brown because he was black? Let’s think about it…he has been a cop for years, and has had ample opportunities to murder random black men out of some hidden racist agenda. Instead, he chose to murder an 18 year old on the street in broad day light in front of a dozen witnesses? The 3 morons above shared various lies about the cop executing brown, shooting him in the back and the back of the head while Brown surrendered. Of course all evidence proved they were making this up, but the San Diego Chargers still decided to run on to the field 2 weeks ago with their hands up. Proving they don’t read I guess.

But back on topic, I couldn’t think of a worse way to sate your lust for black murder than this instance. Doesn’t make any sense. So, hey…maybe Mike Brown isn’t dead because he’s black. Who is Mike Brown?

Brown is:

a criminal who just robbed a store
a criminal who just battered a police officer
a criminal who just tried to kill a police officer with the officer’s own gun
a criminal who charged at the police officer with the intention of doing him harm (he wasn’t coming to play rock paper scissors)

Does the police officer see him as a black man he wants to murder for fun? or does he see a criminal who is trying to kill the police officer? He’s a fucking criminal…who gives a fuck if he is black, white, brown, yellow or other. He deserved to die in that situation. In fact, he committed suicide by cop. He could have kept running. The fat white cop wouldnt catch him in a million years, and he’d eventually get arrested but hey, he’d be alive and out in a few months. Instead, he charged the armed officer. He committed suicide. Google suicide by cop. Very popular.

If you are to believe the bullshit narrative we are hearing about this story, the cop killed him because he was black. If that is the case, in the EXACT same scenario but with a Mike WHITE, the ‘black lives matter’ and protestors would have you believe that one of these 2 scenarios would have occurred:

a) in the car fight, the cop would let Mike WHITE turn the gun on the cop and kill him. White guy privilege I guess. The cop wouldn’t have fought, and would take one for the white team and let the white criminal murder him
or
b) if the Mike WHITE had run away, stopped, and turned towards the cop, the cop would NOT have shot, and would have instead I guess just tried to wrestle him once he got to him (even though Mike WHITE had tried to kill the cop moments earlier in the car)

I really think that if you think the cop killed him because he was black, you’re slightly retarded, or are trying to use this instance to shine a light on other police injustice. That’s very possible…not all cops are good. But use a different fucking case. This one is dead to nuts solid in the cop’s favour and if you argue for Mike Brown, you are just arguing for someone who attempted to murder a cop to get out of a robbery charge.

Scenario 2 - Eric Garner

Eric Garner was selling loosies on the street, and got arrested. A pile of cops showed up because he was massive. He resisted arrest (mistake 1) and a fight ensued.

He died of a heart attack in the struggle.

None of the cops tried to kill him. They tried to arrest him. Nobody shot him point blank…their lives weren’t in danger. He wasn’t trying to fight the cops…he was instead trying NOT to get cuffed up. They didn’t use lethal force on him. They didn’t shoot him. They held him down, and one put him in a rear naked choke (and not a very good one I might add). HE didn’t die of asphyxiation because he ‘couldn’t breathe’ because of a choke hold. And that choke hold is designed to restrict the carotid arteries and cause you to pass out, not to die of asphyxiation.

In the process, he had a heart attack. We are talking about a guy who weighs 350+ lbs, and had heart disease, asthma and diabetes. He died NOT because the cops were racists. He died because

  1. he was morbidly obese and unhealthy
  2. he resisted arrest and engaged the officers in a physical altercation that triggered a heart attack

The whole ‘I can’t breathe’ thing is the next 'hands up. Here’s an interesting fact: criminals lie all the time, and will say anything to not have cuffs put on. Usually they whine and cry that the cuffs are too tight or that their arm hurts. When they are someone who had just resisted 5 officers, guess what…you can’t just go “Oh sorry buddy. Let’s let you stand up and dust off while you catch your breath before we do this again”. Who knows what the fuck is next. But if you believe the protestors and rights marchers, that’s what they would have done if they were arresting a giant white guy who was physically resisting arrest. Yeah right.

If you want to believe that the guy the cops were trying to arrest was ‘murdered’ because he was black, again, i don’t think you’re reading the facts.

Scenario 3 - Anthony Martin

Here’s another awesome reason to loot and protest. Anthony Martin was asked a question by a police officer following up on a theft report. In the process of that discussion, Anthony Martin tweaked, pulled a gun on the officer, and before he could fire (we will probably find out his ghetto gun jammed) the officer fired 3 shots. One struck Anthony Martin and killed him. THis was filmed at a gas station near St Louis yesterday.

Who is Anthony Martin? Is he a nice kid? He is someone who has MULTIPLE arrests for armed assault and armed robbery in the past 18 months. Anthony Martin pistol whipped someone across the head recently. Good guy right!

What did Anthony’s mum say ?? " I don’t understand why they had to kill my boy"

well maam , your son pulled a gun and pointed it at the police officer when it became clear he was about to get arrested for a 5th time this year.

What did Antyony’s dad say ?? “He wasn’t a violent person, this makes no sense”

I guess dad didn’t make it to court any of those times Anthony was done for violent, armed assaults and robberies.

But the narrative is that the cop only killed him because he was black. Funny, the cop only shot 3 times, and killed the guy with teh gun. He didn’t shoot the other black guy who was with him. Why not? If he’s truly a racist, black guy hating murderous cop, wouldn’t he have jumped at the oppportunity to bag 2 kills? Or how about this…he shot the guy who pointed a fucking gun at him.

But it’s only because he’s black. Here’s what Sharpton et al will have you believe would have happened if they were white guys who had just committed a crime, and who pulled a gun on the cop. The cop would have said 'oh sorry, I didn’t realise you guys were white, go ahead, and don’t let me catch you around here again or else I’ll talk to your mom"

No, he would have shot the white guy in the center of mass until he stopped him. White, black, brown, whatever. Wake the fuck up.

I realise black people get a shit deal in general. I really do. I met a guy with an R8 at a car meet and he was late because he got pulled over. I asked what he did and he said he was DWB. I thought at first ‘drunk driving…how the fuck did they let him go?’. I then realised that’s DUI…and asked what DWB was. “Driving While Black” was the answer. Truly fucking sad.

There are certainly problems and as I said, I get it. But don’t use these fucking criminals as your martyrs. They are fucking criminals and the two who were shot deserved everything they got, 100%. Sticking up for them for the cause does nothing but hurt the cause, because those fuckers were just WRONG. Both of them were attempting to MURDER police officers. IF you are wearing a Mike Brown short, or are busy getting your Anthony Martin t-shirt printed, you are saying you are standing up for attempted murderers. Guess what the rest of America thinks of you? They think you’re fucking retarded and are tuning you (and your cause) out.

#2

A little American history for this holiday season. Blacks for years have been saying how they have been oppressed and held back even tho there is the NAACP there are several black only programs there is affirmative action the list goes on. Remember when all the white people rioted when OJ Simpson got off…oh yeah either do I. Because it didn’t happen. The black population in America isn’t anywhere near the percentage of the population of blacks in prison. The media in America seems to play on the ignorance of the select sections of the black population telling them nothing is there fault and they are all victims. Blacks actually flourished in early America. Only when this victim status started bringing down the people and creating a siuation where some in black culture would accept less for there standards. Slavery was over 150 years ago and still the community is way behind. That is part of the false media pushing these people m further and further down. So it looks like there standards for family education and ethic standards have just been run into the ground. This isn’t to say everyone in that community is this way but it seems too often the statistics show this community low in all those category.

So let me ask you what became of the class of people that are not African American but had several very similar setbacks in American history

These people were brought here in many cases against there will to work as cheap American labor. First in south America and then migration up to north America in many cases as indentured servants. Many of these people were pushed out of there own country. Coming to America as unskilled workers with no supporting finances. This community has been oppressed and suppressed while getting discrimination in all forms including unequal pay taxing them only. They got paid just 60% of what the other workers were getting and when they went to court they were not allowed to make cases against anyone other then there fellow community. They helped build America as cheap underpaid workers forced into work by starving them when they tried to get fair working jobs and pay. After the railroad system was built this community of workers were all fired on the spot and they weren’t allowed to even ride the same rail way they built. This community of people were subject to the single largest race related discrimination in history. Not allowing them or there America born children to become American citizens. This was after slavery was abolished.

Then in a move never seen before or again in American history were these people put into internment camps. Taken from there homes jobs and lives to be put into camps. They were actually banned from certain states and forced into relocation camps. This again well after slavery was abolished. These people were actually denied citizen ship and were facing extreme racism in unequal human rights well into the 1960s

So with all these setbacks no support or outstanding help from government other then money later received for actual reparations. What has happened to people of this community. This community was the Asian American community. Actually American citizens at the time of all these offences. After all this the Asian Americans are at the top of the list of most educated least arrested and least likely to have a broken family while maintaining some of the largest groups of business owners.

I don’t speak or know enough not say I speak for the African American community. But not one person in African American history can say they have ever seen or had more roadblocks… discrimination… racism then the Asian Americans and the Asian Americans have become some of the most successful people in American history.

#3

The crux of the problem with this argument from OP is that he is not a black person, so his opinion on it not being a “race thing” is null value.

Without being a part of the party of individuals in question one cannot argue what is or is not abusive towards the impacted group of individuals. Same as a man cannot define for a woman what is or is not sexual harassment towards women.

“I don’t speak or know enough not say I speak for the African American community. But not one person in African American history can say”

Fail. You just said you can’t speak, but then you do speak for the whole history.

#4

Apparently you missed the entire point. I was saying in all these cases the media is pushing bad information. Continously praying on one class constantly aggravating the issue. If these criminals were white or Hispanic we wouldn’t hear about it. What about the white guy 3 months ago shot by a black cop in a dorm room. Watch the news and the media plays into this almost creating the issues. There is this constant theme that is fed words like oppressed held back robbed of a chance. My point was there were types of community’s that suffered extreme set backs. Those community’s didn’t end up with the same siuation or label. I’m agreement that this is a criminal issue not a race issue.

The only other fail is possibly you not understanding history. Hence the words history. American history is a collection of events that you can read and take accounts of. Take the time to read I only said American history.

#5

Hah… no it says African American history… you wrote that.

The United Nations itself has expressed an issue with this stuff going on. But ya know… what do they know? Good ol Sakimano knows better than they possibly could…

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30350702

#6
#7

How daft do you have to be can’t you see the American part in the quote.

Anyways I don’t think it’s race related it’s criminal related. It’s choice related and in part it’s fed to all of us to make it look race related. The history point was only to show in American history there has been issues with setbacks in many cases not just in one community but that isn’t talked about

#8

How daft do you have to be to say you can’t speak for people and then do it anyway?

#9

Your the one who didn’t understand the point. And is struggling with it. Sorry the post is lost on you. Historically speaking there are facts and events you can make comparisons I’m speaking from facts and history. I’m sure tons of people feel one way or another I’m speaking from a historic point of facts. I’m not saying people were not oppressed I’m not saying terrible things haven’t happened to several people. I’m saying when you look at history and the facts of history some had it worse then others. And with that history of oppression isn’t a good excuse for saying that one community doesn’t have a chance.

#10

*you’re

The point is you are speaking for people who I can only guess you are not a party of…

It’s right there in plain english.

“But not one person in African American history can say”

You must then have spoken to every single African American in history to make such a statement. And I’m sure you have. Because your logic is just that sound.

#11

I have spoken to every last one. The point of the conversation is a criminal in each case was shot not a race of people or some race motivated siuation that isn’t there.

The media tells this story of race and oppression created this. Race and oppression didn’t hold back other groups and it’s not relevant. Being a criminal and making bad decisions is a choice not a way of life.

#12

[quote=“justincredible,post:11,topic:6675”]
The point of the conversation is actually several non african american folks discussing how they don’t see how race is related. Trouble with that is… the people in the discussion could not POSSIBLY have a point of reference unless they were african american.

Can a bunch of non astronauts have a relevant discussion about what it’s like to be in space? How about the consequences of being in space, can the non astronauts relevantly discuss that? Obviously not if they have not been to space. Your points are nullified by a lack of perspective.

#13

I think that’s the problem unfortunately.

I am looking at this as a Canadian from miles away and thinking… ‘let’s look at the facts’

I don’t give a fuck about anything but the facts. What you’re saying is that nobody should look at the facts and they instead should vote by race. Or that if you’re black, the facts don’t matter because you need to use this case to be outraged? There’s plenty of legit cases depicting racist cops fucking up. Why use one where the cop was right?

That makes no sense.

It’s not ‘the police against the blacks’ in these three cases however. It is the police against the criminals.

Sometimes however it is DEFINITELY the white guy against the black guy just because of race, and that sucks.

Know what else sucks? There was another murder in Ferguson 2 weeks ago. Another race murder.

Guy and his fiancé came to a red light, and a guy with a hammer came up and smashed his windshield. When he got out to confront the hammer wielder, he was attacked by a group of 4 of the hammer welder’s friends . They beat him to death in front of his fiancé right there on the street. They told him it was because he was white. They were 4 black teenagers who had been whipped into a frenzy by the media and the 3 liars who told the hands up story, and they decided to kill a whitepersrson for revenge. They tried it again later on a woman on her own but she got away.

Almost nobody reported this story. Why? Didn’t fit the ‘all whites are racist killers and all blacks are victims’ narrative that was getting headlines.

#14

where did I say anything about voting?

And ok lets say you are basing your OPINION on “facts” where did you get them from??
The news? And who owns that news you got your “facts” from?

Very nice to pass judgement on people you don’t know from a news source that you just take as gospel…

#15

pretty telling you left out Tamir Rice from your diatribe…

#16

And John Crawford.

Yes those guys were definitely criminals and died because of being criminals. This is about criminals. Totally.

#17

It discusses another shooting in new York and the protests over the Eric garner incident. The majority of the article however is speaking about the details of a shooting I never once referenced (Akia Gurley)

Further, you showed your ass there for a second when you try to broad stroke the entire situation and say sakimano thinks it’s alright. Sakimano actually said there is clearly an issue, however if we look at the facts in these three instances they don’t sound anything like the ‘racist white cops are killing innocent victim black Americans’ headlines. If you look at the facts that is .

If you ignore the facts, misquote, or talk about other cases, sure different story. I’d rather stick to the facts though.

#18

That’s the thing, we are not discussing what it’s like to be black and deal with the police. Well I’m not. I am discussing the facts around the three cases referenced.

If you have something to refute what I believe to be the facts (I read the Grand jury documents in the Mike Brown case for example…mayne you read something different? Please share)

All you have done is ironically seek to inflame the discussion and make it about white vs black. Exactly the bullshit I believe is fucking America up.

Address the evidence please. As a group of black and white people already did in a couple of these incidences (the grand jury members)

#19

Facts from where though? The police? The news?

Neither one of those is a good source for facts. My experience with police in Canada is 100% opposite from the United States. So if there is a chance of that coloring your perspective I could get that.

#20

Voting as in making your decision about each case. Not casting a vote in an election. Colloquial term.

Fined it’s hard to discuss this with you because you aren’t paying attention.

I read through grand jury evidence in the garner case to a small extent and in the Mike brown case to a huge extent.

If you had read my OP slowly so that you can retain it, you would see that I said this. You would also see that I am getting NONE of my facts from the news for Garner/Brown…and you would see that I believe the news media created the entire riot.