Sorry, I misread that.
Show me a C6 RS6 that is slower please.
[quote]It’s not the strips that are the problem, it’s the bazillion other variables which aren’t shown. I mean, if we went by the certified© times in your list we see that one car with a JHM tune trapped slower with the tune than on the stock ECU. That’s the only certified part. At face value, the JHM tune did barely anything on Mistro’s car at the track. You need the piece of information about atmospheric conditions and so on but these variables are MIA, others are even more difficult to quantify. Even playing with tire pressures can influence terminal speeds quite a bit.
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worrying about ‘a bazillion other variables’ is a common refrain when attempting to plug one’s ears. However when you’re comparing dozens of inputs, and they keep telling the same story, it’s pretty simple.
Pointing at that one piece of data (which I have explained to you, since I was there that day…my car went 12.81 @ 109.9) and saying it invalidates all of the other data is again, convenient, and a bit argumentative. What you’re trying to do is not listen. That’s fine. I presented the thesis that the JHM RS4s are faster than all of the competition. You attempted to knock that down for no reason other than to knock it down. I have dozens of examples of acceleration tests, be they 3k-8k speedo checks…3k-8k VCDS logs…Pbox data…dragstrip data. You don’t accept any of it, and that’s fine. I’m not gathering the data to sell tunes. I’m gathering the data to help our community. If you want to buy something else, that’s cool. A couple of of RS4 owners who have done this research and testing presented the JHM tune as a great option for you, and you decided to instead have someone else tune your car. Good stuff. But don’t try to knock down what JHM modded cars have accomplished because it doesn’t line up with your plans.
[quote]What? Shift times are the deciding factor for buying a car now? That’s the silliest thing I’ve ever heard. Besides, I can shift plenty fast but my gearbox needs a rebuild first. I’m not going to grind it to bits to save two tenths on a glory run. Only point was driver makes a difference and it’s not small.
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driving fast is easy. I don’t have any magic up my sleeve so save it. If you granny shift to save a few dollars over the long run, that’s your prerogative…but don’t project your granny shifting prejudice on the rest of the RS4 community. I can promise you that people who go to the dragstrip do not share your granny shifting techniques. They are trying to see how their car accelerates often comparing to stock stats they 've seen posted. When periodicals are testing the B7 Rs4, they aren’t granny shifting. When Audi presents performance data, they aren’t granny shifting. If you do, again, that’s your choice. However you’re in a very small minority.
[quote]The first part is special pleading, the second is outright false. MRC use a CARTEC dyno which uses measured coastdown losses. My C5 was on one identical to the UK one in Paris when it got mapped and you get all the data you want. The owner should have the print out with all data.
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I think you should spend some time talking with someone who operates one of these dynos. The user inputs influence every single number that comes out of it. And yes, that includes the calculation of drivetrain loss on rundown/coasting. You can download the operator’s manual from Cartec-Snap On to see how to run the MRC dyno, as I did a couple of years ago. Interesting stuff. It may still be there.
[quote]I’m not discounting anything, I am saying it is incomplete. Yes you have 7 or 8 cars with JHM software. How many data points do you have for MRC, MTM, tunetec, sportmile, … ?
You have no basis to dismiss other tuners (yet) that’s the reality of it. And, again, ECU tuning isn’t magic. It’s hard work. Those companies who specialize in a few of these RS models all know what’s going on. If any of them would stumble onto a vastly superior approach they’d all know about it soon enough. I could order several tunes and post up the precise changes they all make to the mapping, if I wanted to waste a few grand on an internet debate.
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Actually that’s not the case. My point about you dismissing our data was to show that no matter what you’re presented with, you’ll dismiss it. You did exactly that. You talked about all kinds of variables…tried to reference driver skill…all of the usual stuff people mention when trying to discount quarter mile data. As I have already said, I have acceleration data from many tuners. GIAC, APR, JHM, MTM, EPL and all of the supercharger companies. Our dragstrip list here has pretty strict requirements to qualify. That’s why that list is as it is.
As for why more people from other tuners don’t go to qualified dragstrips, that is a question that answers itself. For many of them, they don’t like other people controlling the ruler. They like using their own ruler. They then come up with a load of excuses as to why they don’t go. You’re familiar with most of them, as you’ve used them here today.
