I know some people are JHM nut-swingers, but there’s a MUCH better alternative to their cross rod, if you can weld, or know somebody who can weld… Buy this:
http://static.speedwaymotors.com/RS/SR/Product/55/1750122_L_151bb886.JPG
$7 and a few minutes of cutting/welding, and you have their $125 part.
Some of you may already be aware of this, but for those who aren’t, here ya go.
I think lots of people are. I think the JHM unit is for people that don’t have a welder connection. Dare I say thats tons of people including me.
I think if more people had connection to fabricators and welder friends there would be lots of products that wouldn’t be getting traction. Its nice to have both options personally by the time you pay someone the time to take the part off weld in the unit you basically just paid for the JHM unit. So for most people its nice to know all the work is done for you.
Hey guys,
If anyone knows a good welder, I have heard you can have this for a tenth of the cost of what JHM charges. Just need some good stainless pipe, a couple of clamps, flanges, gaskets, bolts, and you’re laughing. No need to pay JHM.
http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/images/JHM_B6-B7_S4_Longtube_Headers.jpg
Awesome first post, best part is he got the classic “jhm-nutswinger” phrase in the first sentence. I’d assume he is part of team JHMhaters. It’s obvious if you have access to fabrication equipment or people with ability and a little bit of mechanical know how that you could make your own parts cheaper.
Just like Blake said, the work is already done, you don’t have to mess with measuring removing/installing, checking fitment and hoping that you or your welder doesn’t weld like shit
Hey guys, I was going to buy an Aventador, but I found out my fabricator friend can whip one up for me for 1/10th the cost. Check it out homies!
http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/lamborghini_100353146_m.jpg
;D
that thing is badass
needs moar rivets
Watch it Saki. Some people may start believing you.
lol
On that note (great example) could you give us an idea
a) how much those are going to cost (including all the fuckups, all the wasted material)
b) how much time you will have in them when they’re done and what you make per hour at your job
c) if you had any free help
d) if they work as well as the JHM setup which was modelled and then flowbench tested at Roush and SVT
I bet when you add it all up, your headers will be great because they were a labour of love, but in the end if someone said ‘hey dude, make me some headers’ you’d say ‘Sure. for $5000’.
Way to put me on the spot there Saki but I will play along to a point. First though I want to address something that bothers me. In one of JHM’s shifter comparison videos they talk about how they made a finely machined transmission cross rod that they found didn’t work well. Yet now they offer the transmission cross rod with just a spherical end so that they can keep the Delrin bushings on the other side. I just don’t see the need for the part unless people are breaking those cross rods left and right.
Back to the headers:
a) 1. Just in materials (pre-bent tubing, collectors, and flanges) I am right below two grand including the fuck-ups/wasted material. The material is not cheap and the high quality collectors that I am using are far from cheap since they cost over 15 percent of what the whole JHM headers cost EACH. Also currently I am on revision six of my headers since I just warped the crap out the flanges that I got from Scott@advancedautomotion. If I make it to revision thirteen then I think I will be over what JHM charges for their headers just in materials. Keep in mind though JHM went through a bunch of revisions too and I have seen it said that they had the engine out so many times that it was ridiculous. We have to keep things in perspective here and I am not bashing JHM but just trying to keep the story straight.
a) 2. Now if you add in the cost of equipment for this project then I am over what the supercharger costs! Sadly I am not kidding but those costs are not wasted to this one project since I now have the knowledge and equipment to make a ton of stuff and do repairs/work that I couldn’t before. I mean there is so much stuff that you need to get this project moving along like:
A. icengine works kit - to model what the headers should look like
B. Miller welder and welding table
C. all the safety gear (auto-darkening mask, gloves, jackets, etc)
D. consumables for welding (tungsten electrodes, sharpener for the tungsten/diamond grinding wheels, filler rod, argon tank, MIG welding wire, tri-mix gas for MIG welding stainless)
E. the first saw that I used for cutting tubing
F. industrial band saw that I am using now to cut tubing with its expensive premium bi-metal band saw blades
G. multiple different grinders (handheld and bench) plus the grinding wheels
H. lastly a Miller plasma cutter to cut out my own SS flanges
It racks up fast! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
b) Time wise I only get one or two days a week to work on this project since I am working on it during my days off for the past three months. Not quite sure when I will be done but at this point I have until next March when the local tracks open back up to get it all wrapped up and get some test miles on the car. Most people here like me don’t give a shit about dyno numbers so I want to hit the drag strip to use that as my testing ground. Also I don’t work at a shop any more since I now have a small shop in my backyard and make much more money with my other business than I would ever make from working at a shop.
c) I have received very little free help but the help that I have received has been great. It is mostly just tips here and there on how to do things easier. For example, you can’t really learn how to weld by reading a book or watching somebody else since it is all about practice.
d) We shall have to wait and see if my headers work better than the JHM headers. I will not speak to something that I don’t know the results yet and it would waste everybody’s time plus cause unneeded drama. Now I can tell you that there are certain things that I have my thoughts and opinions about that I think will work better but I want to see how they turn out first. For example, one of the things that I have not found the answer to is what size tubing is the primary pipes on JHM’s headers. When I asked Dru, he told me that he did not have access to that information and the people that I have asked did not bother to check before installing the headers. So I have to speculate that the primary pipes are probably 1 1/2" or 1 5/8" since bigger would hurt NA cars.
e) I have had multiple people ask me about making a set of headers for them and I have told them that I want to finish my set first.
lol. I’m not new to Audi forums in general, so I knew I’d get some laughable responses. :
I’m definitely not a JHM hater… I have their shifter and solid linkage, and I’ve been watching their R&D’d RS6-Rs (buddy has them on his car, making REALLY nice numbers). I just think their cross rod is a bit expensive, even for the fact that they’ve put the R&D and their time and parts into it. $50 is a much more reasonable figure, in my opinion, which is just that, an opinion, considering what it costs to make on your own. I was merely pointing it out for the people who have the capability/access to weld, and like doing things on their own. Perhaps, I like sharing knowledge, as I thought that’s what forums for. 
I built my own fuck em 125$ is a joke $7$ is the way to go
Great insight…
[quote=“8URV8,post:1,topic:3225”]
Since your such a fab artist…how is the above quote going for you?
why dont you look at it in a way of a business owner. people are going to pay because its just quicker and easier to put in your card info than to run to lowes and buy a bag of bolts and try to weld shit together. also what is your overhead and what is that of a business owner’s with employee salaries, rent, heat, electricity, etc? people need to understand that the guy is trying to make some money, but needs to implement the costs of running said business. wouldnt you do the same or would you work for free?
since you and 8URBUTTH0l3 can fabricate and saved yourself some cash, good for you. make your own now and sell them for cheaper since your so good
well said 91
if this were such a blockbuster part for JHM and they were making a fortune on it, I can guarantee you that DxC and all his buddies stillborn rabbit and rejectB5 would have copied it and had someone in China make it so they could sell it for $98 and call JHM a ripoff.
I reckon that in order to make this worthwhile for JHM to make these, they charge a price that covers their time and effort. Reality is they probably just wanted to make life easier for customers with this need.
They sell plenty of stuff barely above cost. Have a look above at the guy who just described his process making longtube headers for his B6 S4…it’s costing him pretty much what JHM sells these for retail. If he wants to make a go of it, and make it his business, he’ll maybe get those costs down eventually, but when you factor in his time, costs, materials, equipment depreciation, space/real estate, it’s clearly going to be a pretty modest ‘profit’ if any.
Trust me, I understand this, but like I posted earlier, it shouldn’t be that much of a markup. It’s like Best Buy selling their USB cables for $30 when they get them for $4 at cost (I used to work there). I can appreciate the time and skill it requires to make something like those headers, which are a piece of art. But a $7 part, maybe $2 for the welding wire, maybe 30 mins max from start to finish. So you’re saying it costs them $116 in time? That’s a hefty hourly rate… Again, it’s a fairly “specialty” part, w/out much demand, but holy crap! Find a professional welder and he can do it for less than that…
lets say from start to finish it takes him an hour. lets say an hour and a half to also incorporate the time to run to lowes and buy the parts, set your welder, spool, gas to the story, electricity to run the welder, at 80 per hour labor rate which is CHEAP now a days, then yea thats a pretty good price. look at the big picture, if you can make it cheaper, thats good for you. i applaud your fab skills. some people just dont have that luxury.
Yeah, I see now. I just finished talking to my brother-in-law who welds for the oil rigs in Texas. He said if somebody brought him the rod and joint, he’d probably charge $75-$100 just for the quick cut/weld. I honestly didn’t realize it would be that much. Taking into account the set up and everything, I now understand it. Initially, it just didn’t make sense. Now that I have more info on it, I get it. lol
I personally can’t weld, but my friend can and is going to teach me, plus we have a DIY car center, so I am lucky in this case. My apologies to JHM. However, if somebody is able to weld, use the part I linked to make your own, to save some money. That said, this is a mod that should be done if you do anything more than shifting like a granny. That piece is a ticking bomb.
So, just talked to him again, he thought I meant building that rod from a straight piece of stock, doing the bends and everything himself. He said MAYBE 20-25 bucks, most probably wouldn’t even charge for something that small.