Newbies first Vag log try...

B8 S4
#21

I dont want to beat a dead horse but a thought came to me to go ahead and compare the vagcom time stamps of a stock car, a stage 1 level car, and your log.

So your log went from 2622rpm to 6287 rpm with the following time stamps…

26.36
27.74
29.11
30.49
31.88
33.25
34.63
36

So the car did a third gear pull traveling a total 3665 rpms of rev band in 9.64 seconds.

Here is a log of a car first at a stage 1 level of tune and after the marker is a second run on a completely stock tune.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2qLNaD2PEmkZG41NlRMLV83Nzg/view?pli=1

At stock the car traveled from 2583rpm to 6277 rpm or a total of 3694rpms in a total of 8.08 seconds. I made sure to crunch the data in favor of your car as your car traveled slightly higher in the rev band and for a bit fewer rpms.

At the stage 1 level the car traveled from 2591rpm to 6290rpms or a total of 3699 rpms in 7.56 seconds.

That data is also confirmatory. I’d stick with the suggestions to try a different fuel and send all this data to your tuner once you try out a new fuel and datalog that as well. Hopefully a new 93 gas station will help.

Mike

#22

Did you end up getting a log today on the 100 octane mix to share with us?

#23

NO, I have not… I’ll post it as soon as it’s done even if I have to go and get another fill up of the good stuff…lol

#24

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3adpsj1t11k54s/log-01-031-101-231-481-1311-2231-2251-2271-4691-4741-5971.xlsx?dl=0

I had to get out to Queens so brought the logger with me. Here are the results, couldn’t do anything more extensive too much traffic around here. This was done about 2-3 miles from home so car was still fairly cool. DA in the 1600-1700 and temp was around the low 80’s.

#25

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ypdawzla0h67tob/log-01-031-101-231-481-1311-2231-2251-2271-4691-4741-5971.csv?dl=0
Here’s a cleaner copy…!

#26

I only saw one small section of the log where looks like you floored it - but in those few data points, I see at 6565rpm the MAF was 1290 kg/hr and timing was 24.75 degrees (with little to no timing pull and little to no bypass opening anymore). You should be feeling it pull much harder up top now.

#27

Definitely accelarated harder then before and like I said I an earlier reply feels much smoother. I revved up too 7000 + in third gear because she downshifted from third so thought it would show up on the logs. I’m a little surprised it didn’t and maybe more Air Mass would be better. The weather conditions maybe…? Super happy that she didn’t dump boost at least and the timing was retarded only a couple of degrees at one point. I don’t think we are completely out of the storm yet but things are becoming more positive. Now just have to find a better shell station, cool things down more for insurance, see what the boys at APR say if they respond (they’re usually pretty good about it), see how she’ll log in cooler weather in the fall and what kind of times I can produce at the track with her. After all what fun is it without having to do a little tweaking here and there to get a car to run as good as possible.

#28

I’m sure the car is running much better with 100 octane but that log is unfortunately not interpretable. There is only one section of wot in it and in the middle of that section there appears to be a gear change. That knock retard in the new log could just be from the gear change. To have a meaningful log you need 3rd gear from 2000rpm to redline.

Mike

#29

Yes car downshifted although I was in 4th, I was a little ambitious with the throttle. Looking at the logs late last night I stared to see the pattern with the shift the -2 degree adjustment was made. I will attempt one again lol. Thanks for catching that one, Mike.

#30

dynos…I still don’t get it.

if you can figure out how to log your car, and understand your car, you realise the dyno is basically a log controlled by someone else. Buy vag cable, and you don’t need the dyno anymore.

guys be careful when using RPM/second to say a car is healthy or unhealthy. There are a boatload of variables on a public roadway, and some people may take advantage of that to make their car look better. This was popular in the B5 world with FATS where people would run their car with no seats, downhill, and would not disclose things like changed transmission (different gearing) in order to ‘win’ the FATS race.

Comparing logs of your own car in the same place in the same/similar conditions is invaluable. Comparing your car to another guy in another state with who knows what going on is virtually useless unless you REALLY trust that person.

#31

Visited a dyno day at a local Subbie/Evo shop with a mustang dyno just to check out some cars. Actually The guy with the 11.44 RS7 was there a couple of other Audis, BMW, GTRs etc. decided to run the car on it for $50- just for shots and giggles. The dyno broke lost a c-clip where the axle and drums connect. Anyhow told them I’d come back since I already had paid them, they couldn’t fix it on the spot and I needed to get to work that afternoon. In the meantime I ordered the Ross-tech HEX-Net and two weeks later they let me know that they fixed the dyno. So I went back with the Vag-Com in hand to get some logs and maybe a comparison of a dyno test I did at the last year same time with very close conditions maybe ± 100 DA. I understand that the track will give me the TRUE data about the car and how it’s performing. I don’t take the machine SERIOUSLY it’s only a before and after tool for me. We also keep the dyno guys I business by stimulating their end of the economical spectrum, lol. Cheers Saki…!

#32

Advice heeded…:grin:

#33

Yes this is true to not rely on rpm/sec as a sole indicator. In this case it is more just confirmatory data.

The data that I would lend more credibility to is 8 degrees of knock control and the bypass valve opening up to 20% to bleed boost at higher rpm.

If additional cooling and a better quality 93 can fix that, it will be good. The positive thing is that drobs logs show high knock control but his bypass isnt opening. I believe he has added cooling so perhaps that was enough to keep his iats and egts low enough to not bleed boost.

Either way the timing curve looks like a 100 octane program and it wouldnt be a bad idea to provide this feedback and perhaps get a little tweak to help out and reduce the knock control.

This is the benefit of open custom tuning that I wish we had for our cars. In case you are interested here is an example of the tuning I can do on my track car. It is an open ecu that allows MAP or MAF based tuning and retains all the factory adaptations/safeties. It really is nice…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9YypY4Uqc4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7GJ-HZ_Sqo

Mike

#34

No, the problem is not due to the APR revision because I was pulling timing a year ago when I first got the APR tune. I have logged the car with MS109 with great IAT’s and still see the same timing pull. I’ve changed plugs to stock NGK (I forget the part number) and saw no improvement. I have a list of things to do but am currently out of town and won’t get to it for a little. I’ve been meaning to start a thread so I can focus the discussion/information.

I was able to put down 1:50 lap times at mid-ohio with the updated tune, so the car is still performing great. Probably down about 30-40 HP, but no ability to sense anything is wrong. I speculate that it’s false knock but we’ll see.

#35

You know that I’ll be watching to see what happens with your car. I agree that my car does feel like it’s also performing very well but can’t confirm without actual track time. I’ll leave at that, don’t want to get bombarded about not getting proper proof…lol

#36

Sorry for not getting back to everyone following the the thread sooner, have been a little busy with things. Spoke to APR a little while back and they also looked at the logs I sent them. They seem to think its fuel related as some of you said earlier on. Also, suggested cooling system why wouldn’t they… The IAT’s were a little cooler the second time around. Now could it have been because of the higher octane helping things run cooler or the fact that one log was almost in the middle of the day and the second at night…? Thanks for all your help and feedback it’s always appreciated…!

#37

The fuel wont help with the IAT it will help with the EGT. The cooling system is a great idea if your running more then stock boost. The IAT temps will be lower at night so if you log at different times of the day you can expect dramatically different temp readings for the IAT.

#38

:+1: