Ok so I finally took the plunge and purchased the Ross-tech Hex-Net vcds to log my S4 and a couple of my friends cars. Hooked up the dongle directly to The computer so that I can get a better connection since o don’t have a hotspot in the car, never subscribed. Some things I know I screwed up on ie. Couldn’t get turbo to work or uds I will figure all this stuff out as I go, I guess. So here’s a quick log, drove the car around my area for a little just to see what comes up especially with the new update and tcu tune. What do you guys see? Any suggestions, I know you’ll have a MUCH better handle on this then myself…
. Thanks in advance…!
Turbo/UDS wont work if you are trying to log over 10 parameters like you had selected, FYI.
Ok good to know thanks…
Good for you. That’s the first part of logging is being able to capture and read the data.
As it was said you can’t get turbo mode in some cases. But the sample rate looked good at that range. Good enough to spot most issues. There shouldn’t be too many times you need to log huge blocks at once. The great thing about a apr tune is that you already know the tune is made well and safe so you don’t have to dig too deep into logs when trying to track down a issue that might pop up.
Thanks Justin, very true about APR…now question I tried to calculate boost but the numbers I’m getting are way off coming up with anywhere from 31psi to 29psi. Now I know I’m doing something wrong using .014503774 which I multiply (pressure - ambient temp). What am I missing here. Also the MAF readings why do they seem to drop at higher rpms. I’m reading them wrong I know this… Just want to have a good understanding of what’s going on…lol.
(Pressure - ambient pressure)
Not ambient temperature.
Don’t bother logging ambient temperature or pressure, just make a note of them at the beggining.
You can use those two data points for some much more useful in real time,
Knock on multiple cylinders
Boost
Bypass
Requested Boost
Intake Temp
AFR
Timing
Timing per cylinder
Requested timing
Exhaust temperature
Engine torque (calculated )
Airflow kg/hr (calculated )
The calculation the ecu is doing is also taking atmosphere pressure into account. So if you remove atmosphere pressure (14.7) or something close depending on the da. You would get the actual boost.
So 31-14=17 so the car was making about 17 lbs of boost on top of the atmospheric pressure.
ok I will try this out.
I just tried this and I see what you’re talking about thanks for the math lesson.
firs, good job for making the effort. So don’t take the rest as criticisms but let me try and help you out…
- You need to add engine rpm to the logs
- It looks like from the logs you took them driving around at different loads (from the ignition angle). You need to do a full load (wide open throttle run) from 2000rpm to redline in 3rd gear.
- I would select channels that will give you more meaningful data. Grab the bypass valve, actual igition angle, caluclated maf, specified boost, actual boost, knock control for a bank 1 cylinder and a bank 2 cylinder and lambda for bank 1 and bank 2. Also thrown in EGTs for a few runs.
Here are some examples…
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2qLNaD2PEmkalFvU1otTXEtX0k/view?pli=1
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2qLNaD2PEmkZG41NlRMLV83Nzg/view?pli=1
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2qLNaD2PEmkZV8zNDAxbEhsVU0/view?pli=1
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2qLNaD2PEmkUm8wS1FyS2ZnZkk/view?pli=1
Good luck and let me know if you need any help.
Mike
Not taken as criticism at all, I believe that when one closes their mind to knowledge it’s over. With that said I’m absorbing as much as I possibly can. Thanks for the offer for help I will take you up on that eventually. I will do more concentrated logging as soon as I can, next week should have an appointment to wheel dyno car for shits and giggles so I will attempt to set up some of the parameters and get a forth gear reading (3) three actually. I truly appreciate all that have posted so far it helps a lot especially when someone’s new to this part of the modding seen… Cheers to you all and have a great weekend…
Not taken as criticism at all, I believe that when one closes their mind to knowledge it’s over. With that said I’m absorbing as much as I possibly can. Thanks for the offer for help I will take you up on that eventually. I will do more concentrated logging as soon as I can, next week should have an appointment to wheel dyno car for shits and giggles so I will attempt to set up some of the parameters and get a forth gear reading (3) three actually. I truly appreciate all that have posted so far it helps a lot especially when someone’s new to this part of the modding seen… Cheers to you all and have a great weekend…
PS I did use engine rpm it’s should be the second or third row if not mistaken. The one thing I forgot was the boost bypass and the MAF readings to me don’t look correct they seem low of I picked the wrong group…lol I’ll look into that but on your examples it’s correct what group did you use…?
Ok went for dyno testing today. The Mustang Dyno broke once again and I couldn’t get a correct reading but operator told me he saw 249whp and around 400wtq at 6.4K SHOULD make low 400’s whp and about the same or slightly higher wtq. Supposedly after they ran an 1,100whp GT-R it hasn’t been the same, lmao. Regardless it’s all hearsay until I can get this dyno’d properly and run her at the track to confirm with time slip what she’s really doing. Here is the half ass log I managed to make. Tell me if it makes any sense and if it’s any better.
Thats a pretty decent log.
For knock, you are seeing up to 7.125 degrees of ignition knock control (IKC) activity. I prefer to see significantly less than that but that is not going to blow an engine. The computer is safely retarding timing because the program is timed for a better fuel quality/conditions than you are running. The computer is good at adapting out the overtiming though. Ideally I would like to see 1 to 2 degrees so you know you have your timing maximized but it is not showing as much knock activity.
Timing shows the problem. Your car is requesting up to 23 degrees of timing at WOT. That is ALOT of timing. I would have assumed this was a 100 octane program and you are using less quality fuel than the car was timed on.
While under full load your bypass valve was opening between 5% and up to 20.35%. This is a problem. Remember that knock retard above? Well the engine doesnt like it so much that is opening the bypass valve. This is performance loss. It is also a good thing because the car is protecting itself.
Mike
Correction on the knock correction. It was actually up to 8.25 degrees IKC. The same comments as above apply.
Mike
I see what you’re talking about mike. Now why is the boost (RFP AV) value show 0 when the car is at WOT at higher RPM’s…? Shell 93 is the only gas I use… Yesterday afternoon after I read your response I went and filled her up with Sunoco 100 octane when it dries up over here I’ll try and get a log to see if the timing retard is any different from the this log. One more question MAF is in mg/stroke how can I convert it to kg/hr…? I do think the weather might have something to do, a little anyway, with the timing. I’ve been looking into purchasing the alpha/ams charge cooler so that make a big difference with all of this. If you take notice at the IAT’s they’re around 72 Celsius at the highest point and in the 50-60’s the majority of the time at idle. There’s some high 40’s but I think that’s when Ryan turned on the dyno fan to cool things down when I drove in. Thanks very helpful I’m still trying to get a better understanding of a couple of the values.
Hi there,
RFP AV is your bypass valve. When WOT it should always be at zero. The car should not be bleeding off boost. The bypass valve should be staying shut. I’ve seen timing pull where the bypass valve still stays shut. When it gets bad enough the computer will even bleed boost. This is what happened in your case. Paying attention only to your WOT run where you were pegged at 79 for throttle (that is full throttle) your bypass did this…
0
0
0
0
5.28
14.82
20.35
So at higher rpm it opened up very similarly to what the stock car does.
Your MAF values mirror this. You can log another calculated maf value for HPA if you want but either way you want to see a somewhat liner MAF value no matter what the unit of measurement.
If you look at your MAF values you are doing the following…
1013.56
1053.78
1052.47
1045.96
1044.97
982.78
901.12
So MAF is low and decreasing at redline. This confirms everything else we are seeing that the car is bleeding boost and knocking. I’d say 249whp was probably not far off on a mustang if your car was bleeding to stock power.
So that is the data. Remember data is not evil. Data doesnt care what tuner you go with and data doesnt take out your sister on a date and not call her the next day. If we look at it objectively there was a problem with your car ON THAT DAY AND ON THAT DYNO.
I only emphasize that because the car may have gotten heat soaked, (although as you show IATs would refute this). So you may have also gotten a bad tank of gas (although shell 93 should be good but who knows, station could have gotten a bad batch). There could be a mechanical failure sure as an air bubble in the coolant system. You could have gotten a 100 octane flash and though you got a 93 octane flash (the requested timing of 24 degrees at redline would actually support that assumption).
I think you are doing the right thing but putting a tank of 100 in to see what the log looks like…also to take the new log on the street to get the air flowing over the car real well. Lets go from there.
Mike
In another thread, drob23 also logged significant timing pull on the APR revision. Could be that the new timing curve is just very aggressive for 93 (even if not quite as aggressive as their race fuel program).
moogas - definitely will be interesting to see you re-log on 100 octane (and your butt dyno impression as I would not be surprised if you gain serious power).
Haven’t jumped I it yet but car seems smoother after about 25 miles or so. Had some 93 in the tank about 4 1/2 gallons but added 10.8 gallons of 100. Ones her thing I noticed is that it’s consuming more fuel and when I goose her ,sorry got in her once 0-60 or so she accelerated much smoother and faster then usual…but then again it could just be me. Although, I am very in tune with how my car reacts to different conditions etc… Will see what the logs say. I forwarded the logs to APR and they’re asking me what tune I have. Which they happened to send me the info I guess about a month ago and yes I read drop’s thread which showed the massive timing being regarded by the ecu…
Ok got it…do you think the charge cooler should help the situation…?
Honestly your iats don’t look outrageous. Sure addional cooling can help for extended performance driving but I do not see this fixing your issue. To be honest the car looks overtimed like it is a 100 octane program and I suspect that’s why they asked you what program it is. 24 degrees at redline is a lot.
Does anyone have a link to drobs logs. If they look the same that will tell us something. Obviously it would help to rule out gas presuming you guys don’t go to the same station.
I’d run the tank out of the 100 and go back to a different 93 and see if the issue persists. This is an easy fix for Apr if it is just overtimed.
Mike
Ok let’s see what they tell me and we’ll go from there…