I haven’t seen any discussion in regard to this type of supercharger used on the RS4. I know that JHM uses a Vortech supercharger. The idea of getting the benefit of a roots style lower end without the high end torque fall off is very appealing especially in an AWD car. I’m not sure of the price difference vs. extra power would be worth it though. This forum is far more versed in this stuff than I am so I’d like to here if you have any thoughts. I’m all for incorporating new technology.
Beemercer has actually talked about this in concept before. That Procharger uses a CVT transmission to vary how fast the supercharger impeller spins. Just for comparison, the V3 Vortex that JHM uses has a gear drive unit to give a gear ratio step up from the pulley drive. Think of it as a multiple gear ratio CVT transmission to a one speed automatic transmission for the different supercharger drive units.
“The i-1 has a continuously-variable transmission built into it,” Jones explains. “We can vary the ratio within the gearcase – the CVT can vary the ratio from 0.5:1 to 2:1 over the course of operation throughout engine RPM, which gives you a 4-times range of adjustment.”
That article is dated 8/24/2014 so it came out well after JHM started using the V3 blower on the B6/7 S4s and B7 RS4s. Newer technology is always cool but the V3 blowers work very well and have been reliable so far.
Very true about the smart guys here. as mentioned beem did a big right up on this before. Stuff your going to see on that other fourm LOL
The i -1 is actually a great idea and has real promice to dominate everything. The Cfuge superchargers are already better suited for these high rpm motors then the roots style chargers and Cfuge blowers come in sooner and have a much stronger curve then turbos.
The i - 1 never seemed to make a big impact from what I have seen. I expected it to have a bigger impact. I think its size keeps it from going on newer cars. If you have ever seen a JHM vortech install you know there isnt any room left over to add anything.
The procharger and vortech brands both do well. The procharger superchargers use a more agressive step up raito but doing that makes it so you NEED to have a intercooler where the Vortech step up raito makes it so your natural NA power curve is intact and you can get away without a intercooler. Or thats what I have always seen
I was wondering how much difference this CVT ratio supercharger would have over something like the Vortech that JHM currently uses. The higher the power output the more significant the delta between the two superchargers but it sounds like at the current level the Vortech is a good choice price/performance. I’ve always liked the power delivery of a roots style SC especially in an AWD car. It’s amazing to me that the Vortech can match or beat the time/speed since it seems to give up so much on the low end compared to the roots style.
I’ve also seen where SC setups have used a wastegate to accomplish similar feat. Take for instance http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/mmfp-0708-vortech-centrifugal-supercharger-wastegate-install/ I’m not saying that anyone do this but I enjoy thinking how to take a system and make it better. This would be a far cheaper application as well. No need to use a custom SC, simply use a smaller pulley to increase boost down low and a wastegate to limit upper boost levels. Using a boost controller you could make a custom boost curve. Very cool concept. I wonder in JHM has ever considered something like this or experimented with it. Again at the stock block power levels I doubt that this has any merit but cool thought experiment.
That backs up the i-1 idea that you can just spin the supercharger faster down low. I think the idea of spinnig the supercharger more down low and by passing in the upper rpm. I think with us it would be more of a chore. they are running big boost even the 10 second JHM rs4 was only running like 9lbs of boost and that car still went 130+ mph so I dont know how much more they would be able to get out of it.
The thing to note is that APR uses the bigger roots blower and there times were no faster then the JHM time and JHM was runing about half the boost
I think the gap between the roots and cfuge blowers is much closer then most think. Here is something I keep using. This is a great example.
Its a m112 eaton blower running 8lbs of boost and a intercooler Vs JHM with no intercooler and 6lbs of boost. If the JHM car was running 8 lbs of boost the curve down low would have been exactly the same. But look at what happens after 3800 rpm even with the JHM car being down 2lbs of boost. Also to note. Both cars had exactly the same mods and this was on the same dyno. The only difference was one car had a eaton 112 and the other had the JHM vortech
That graph has finally cleared up my issue of roots vs centrifugal power delivery.
I honestly hadn’t thought that the power curve was so close between the two different technologies. I wish that JHM would take a more scientific approach to showing their SC systems capabilities and in more detail. People want to make the most educated decision possible but all of the information is broken up between forums and websites. On ARP’s site there is a power curve but a similar type of graph is lacking on the JHM site. To me that signaled JHM trying to hide a huge discrepancy in power down low in comparison to the roots SC. Regardless, thank you for posting that graph. It’s obvious that there is little difference between the two in regards to power delivery.
I cant speak for JHM but I dont think they put up anything like that due to the fact that the actual results at the track kinda show the cars perform the same. The JHM RS4 went 10.7@130+ full interior the APR car needed to take out the seats the catback exhaust to just squeek a little faster then that at 10.6@130
There is that and its so hard to really compaire when some kits are running 10lbs more boost then the JHM stage 1. The JHM stage 1 runs like 6 lbs of boost and then you get a random company running 16lbs of boost and there isnt much of a reason to try and compaire the boost curves. JHM picks a blower speed where the car will accelerate much faster then before but it also wont kill your gas mileage. The JHM kit can make whatever they want boost wise where ever they want but when you really take the time to look it over. the cfuge is the only blower that is really well suited for these higher rpm motors. The more rpm the better the cfuge blowers do. Thats not the same with the roots style blowers. they dont like lots of rpm…
All of these kits can go faster if you want to push the blower units. Its hard to really show curve for curve and each dyno is different and with so many one sideded debates you get guys who dont know what they are talking about and guys who cant back up anything with anything fact wise then there are the paid or compensated guys or the random guy who is looking to sell something. It is hard to find the real facts and thats why this site is filled with lots of smart guys and eveyone here pushes for the 1/4 mile its hard to fool the drag strip. Its the same distance everywhere and NHRA tracks are certified to all be the same.
There are lots more debates like this all over the web and its rare you get to of the same cars with matching components. Here we have a great sample and it destroyes the argument some try to make just to make themselves feel better…
I actually made a big post about the blowers and how they breakdown differently. Ill see if I can find it. The other thing to add is that on the other sites you just cant seem to have an educated conversation. They all seem to be filled with guys that have some sort of angle to there opinion so you get more opinions as facts then facts as facts…
Science, if you really want to talk about it, and the scientific method lies in proving your concept. The concept here isn’t that Audi tuners install $10,000 superchargers to drive a dyno printer and graphs…it’s to make the car faster.
The dyno is part of the process, however it’s hardly the proof and it certainly doesn’t make a thesis a proven fact. The acceleration gains are the proof of concept. To that end, the other tuners are entirely UNscientific while JHM focuses on proof of concept.
The lack of a dyno chart on JHM’s website, and your inference that JHM was hiding something is hilarious. Reality? You thought the guys who showed the best acceleration and the best results, and who proved their parts work…were hiding something…while the guys who were ACTUALLY hiding something by fooling everyone with dyno charts were ‘honest’.
Ive always loved Centrifugal blowers over roots and twin. Even back in my Camaro days i was prepping the car for a procharger before i moved and sold everything. Way more efficient and effective imo.
Thank you for taking the time to explain in detail and post links. It’s far more helpful then criticizing.
Between posts I decided to fly out to JHM and see the facility and discuss my concerns in person. Dru at JHM took a lot of time out of his day to show me around, take me for a test ride and even provide me some free swag. All of which I very much appreciated. If anyone has the opportunity to visit I highly recommend it. My concerns have been resolved and I look forward to adding quite a few JHM parts to my car very soon.
WOW great to hear. I would love to hear more about the trip and the overall experience. Even if its just in a PM. Lots and lots of us have been supporting JHM for years. JHM used to fly out once or twice a year and see all us east coast guys. We would have a wrench till sun up and breakfast before getting to bed at 2pm after 18hours of car work. So many of the guys on the other forum just dont know the dedication and history behind these guys and there passion. Take that then add in how many of the people that post on the other forum have an angle or are trying to sell something or push some shop its starts to really hurt everyone.
When people take time and really really look there they usually find JHM is a great company and thats why so many of us strongly support them. But in the same breath you will see the same people that support JHM also tend to support the other honest sucuessful companys.
