Question for Arin@APR RE: B8 K04 tune on Tiptronic cars

B8 A4
#1

Hi Arin,

I just spoke with Pat at Level10 transmissions regarding options for upgrading my transmission in my 09 A4 Avant (6HP28AF). He explained to me that the ECU tune is responsible for telling the TCU how much force to exert based on “calculated torque maps” (I think I have that correct). He also mentioned that this particular transmission is capable of holding quite a lot of power in stock configuration as long as the tune allows it.

At the strip with my APR K04 A4 I’ve found that the torque feels like it’s being aggressively limited through shifts and is quite sluggish. Pat felt that ECU tuning is the key to getting snappier shifts and an upgrade to the transmission wasn’t required.

Would you be able to comment on the this ECU/TCU process and if there is any room for optimization in the APR K04 B8 tune? I’m well aware APR is more on the conservative side of the spectrum but is there an opportunity for adjustment?

Currently at 13.18@104.5 and this is keeping from 12’s in my 4000lbs grocery getter wagon :slight_smile:

Thanks for your help

#2

Damn quick for an A4, nevermind a B8…and an Avant.

Would be cool to see it get into the 12s.

PM Arin so he sees this. Not sure he surveys all the sections or the unread topics link.

#3

Thanks for that. I’ve sent Arin a PM.

Also, this site is filled with extremely knowledgeable users…feel free to comment.

#4

Something to add. Sam at 517 has recommended a valve-body upgrade as a first step. He mentioned they can also do a torque converter upgrade but of the two he recommended the VB. Sam at 517 gets nothing but great reviews throughout the Audi world. Level10, not so much :slight_smile:

#5

Just to verify, is the k04 considered “stg 3” like it is for the earlier generation A4’s? That’s basically a full bolt on kit, where nothing is really left? (intake/exhaust manifold/new turbo/dp/exhaust/injectors/fuel pump)

Just curious. Pretty good trap time and ET it would seem for a A4. Feel free to post up more of the build process you’ve gone through, if you’re the one who modded it all.

#6

I know that those physical trans mods are $$$, and from what I’ve heard not necessary until you are at very high levels of hp/tq. I think the best bet would be a TCU tune if you can find one. That made a huge difference on my A4 for shifting speed.

What version of the K04 tune are you on? I know they released a few revisions of it for the B8 guys. I’m not sure how it compares but the k04 mk6 guys usually trap upwards of 110mph. Also whats your 60ft time?

x2 on posting build info ;D

#7

No injectors or fueling upgrades required for K04 on a B8. Most have not referred to as Stage 3 because it’s technically an OEM turbo, but call what you want I suppose :slight_smile:

Not much hasn’t changed actually. I’ve owned the car since new. I’ve done some mods and left some to the experts.

If there’s interest I can post a full rundown. This site is very B8 S4 and 4.2 centric so I haven’t bothered.

#8

13.18 is with the APR 93 K04 tune…I believe “V2”. 60ft times are consistently 1.8x…usually 1.80-1.83.

#9

Yea, but it’s “audirevolution” not “4.2revolution” (even if some of the original guys thought that would be a good name lok). And anyone willing to go to the dragstrip regularly for testing purposes gets an OK from most the guys here.

I think we all like to see progress and builds. There is also a lot of cross platform success / experimentation / knowledge to be had that normally might not be applied.

The B8’s are direct injection, correct? That’s probably why you don’t have to add injectors vs the older guys that do. Does it change from a 3.2 FPR to 5bar FPR or anything, or is the fueling 100% stock? Seems like a billet k04 turbo would really be a killer option for the B8 guys, and at a relatively competitive price point. Any of the B8 guys try running a 50/50 meth spray? It would seem that doing that may help with some of the carbon build up possibly as well as help keep temps down and octane up.

#10

maybe edit the title then…

#11

B8’s are direct injection and precisely why fuelling upgrades aren’t required with K04’s. Fuelling is 100% stock.

There are a few guys running meth setups but I haven’t seen one hit the track. Unfortunately, lots of butt dyne talk and “kill” stories but no hard data. I’m sure it will help regardless of the lack of data on the B8 platform. I was close to getting a meth setup installed when I went K04 but I decided to wait a little longer. There are a few companies working on optimized intake manifold and I would like to see how they work out and if direct port comes into play. A multi-nozzle setup with direct port would be a healthy setup for cooling (down the pipe) and octane boost.

I’ve been running a CC for awhile.

BTW, the DA was in the 300-400 range. I’ve never tried the race tune but it makes me curious.

#12

Cory make a thread bro I would love to see it…

Also level 10 and most the trans guys are a little behind.look at the b8 s4s the transmissions stumble even with the dsg cars…if apr isn’t doing a transmission flash try pming coutnvohn I know him and jhm have done and are doing stuff with the 6speed zf transmissions. Justincredible has a crazy transmission tune.

#13

Thanks Chris, I’ve sent a PM to Countvohn and asked him if he could also chime in.

#14

Good point maybe their flash would work, then you could just get it loaded at a JHM dealer. That would be your best bet.

Isn’t there a V2.1 and 2.2 for the K04 tune that makes an extra 30whp/wtq? Sounds like your 60ft times are solid for a tip car. Could have sworn I read about that on AZ…

I’m sure you could pull a few things out and run race gas for a 12.x time, but it would be awesome to have it running 12.x at full weight on pump.

#15

I’ve heard of only two version for the B8 A4. The original and V2. I believe the VW TSI K04 has had a few revisions but they don’t apply to the A4.

Arin, is there an updated tune for the B8 A4 K04? Mine was flashed in June '13.

Thanks
Cory

#16

June 2013 would most likely be the latest. We last updated quite some time back.

As for it holding back during shifts, are you seeing anything in the data? Throttle closing, boost venting, excessive timing pull, things like that?

#17

Thanks Arin. The last time I was at the track I unfortunately wasn’t logging. Is there a specific set of data/measuring blocks that would help narrow down things…I’m relatively new to this.

All I can add now is that in first gear it shifts close to 6500 and boosts to 25psi, all gears after that it shifts at ~5800 and peaks boost at ~20psi (from gauge). I’m typically taking off at ~3200 and approx 10-15psi.

#18

cory_can,

Your car is really impressive. The B8 2.0T is a real strong platform. JHM is working hard to get the B7 2.0T into a new place, Spoiler alert and keep it a secret :wink: they already broke both the ko4 and ko3 records for the B7 2.0T using a stock ko3 turbo. ON NOW, to your question.

While I can’t speak for APR, I can close to 100% tell you that their tune isn’t holding the transmission back. These ZF6hp transmissions have a lock and unlock feature in the TQ converter that will give you a pain when you get a good boost in TQ.

Doing several 6hp transmission tunes, I can tell you it helps a great amount in most cases.

Stay away from Transmission hardware changes. 517, level 10 stay away from them all. Valve body work is bad news and since it’s already computer controlled, there isn’t a gain in shift speed. As for the TQ converter you can do some stuff there but you can only move the stall speed a few hundred rpm or you will get fault issues.

I responded more in a return PM to you.

#19

^ Awesome!! No surprise your Karma is off the charts.
…and this is why AR is the premium Audi forum. No BS, just smart people telling things the way they are.

I’ve returned your PM. I’m really interested in seeing where this goes.

#20

Did some testing the other night and the damn transmission has a mind of its own. When it works, it’s decently quick. However, when it hangs-up it can be bloody dangerous. A few times it hung-up so bad that it almost put me through the damn windshield.

If the weather holds-up tonight I’ll be going back to the track. Nice and cold. DA should be -800 or so tonight.