remvoing IM for carbonc lean..coolant lines? and barring engine over

A6 All/ S6 All
#1

Forgot to grab a pic last night, but there are 2 small coolant hoses which dont seem to exist on this pic from the s6 C-C how to. I thought these were vacuum and got a wet surprise.

Also, easiest way to bar the engine over to close the valves?

the coolant lines in question would be immedietly to the left of the uncapped vacuum hose here…
So the question is, do i need to drain all the coolant down, or can i just pull the lines off, cap them on both ends and any remaining coolant will be trapped in the maniifold//wherever it goes?

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/715313875.jpg

#2

there’s not much coolant in there…just let it run out.

re: cranking the engine - I used a triple square on one of the flywheel bolts to turn. Preferred method is to turn the crank with the alternator, but I didn’t have a socket shallow enough.

It’s a good idea to replace the double ORing for the oil filter neck base while the IM is off as well. Seems to be a common leak point.

#3

The S8 has some different coolant lines due to the coolant tank location change in the S8 Vs the S6. I always use the nut on the alternator. You can bump the starter if you wish. If you need tips on how to do that let me know I can write something up.

#4

took apart the IM thanks to Count Vohns helpful tips.
Found at the back where the dog bone is supposed to be, and looks like the #1 intake changeover flap is completely broken, disintegrated and in general, completely messed up.
Im not in a position to drop $2k on a new IM and i really hate that you have to spend so much on a piece that looks like it literally bolts into it as an assembly…

So since there is not much of the flap even left…can i remove all of the flaps essentially turning it into a short runner only? Im not sure how these flaps cover what in the intake, but there is a reason their range of motion is so small…will i expose both paths if i remove the flaps?


http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb147/PolishSasquatch/2008%20D3%20S8/B9E46C3B-190F-4F59-9242-4B8443864355_zps9slmui5s.jpg

also this is the carbon from the head from just 4 cylinders… i havent even brushed them yet.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb147/PolishSasquatch/2008%20D3%20S8/D9C125F3-727E-4844-B662-174E4CC514A0_zpsbfv5inxg.jpg

#5

Greg

Take a picture of the entire flap configuration on both sides lets see a full view of how it looks you might still be able to make them work. Those small chunks missing off the flaps isnt a big deal vs just removing all the flaps.

You really really really really do not want to pull the flaps out. It will cause all kinds of running issues including misfires

#6

I took a second look at it, removing them would have no effect as when they are in the open position to use the short runner, it is the same as having no flaps at all. Saw a couple posts guys were running with no flaps at all and said it ran fine and got the normal 20 mpg on freeway.
I actually went ahead and took the flaps out.
I know I will be replacing the manifold at some point, for now it will have to run in short runner only.
I am definitly keeping the tuble flaps in though.

#7

Not sure on how you could have come to those conclusions considering almost none of them is accurate.
Almost eveyone running without flaps is trying to find used or broken flaps so they can put flaps back in.
removing the flaps has a huge impact and is not even close how it is when your running on the short runner and its no where near like not having no flaps when the car is on the short runner

first off running no flaps the motor and intake will always try to pull air from the shortest distance possible so that means that the intake just turned into a short runner intake for the most part. When that happens you loose a sizable amount of Tq low speed throttle response and end up with idle missfires in most cases. But the flaps cover the short and long runners when activated so you dont get intake turbulance and thats what the guys have been reporting when they remove the flaps thats why most guys suggest strongly that you dont remove the flaps and guys without the flaps are looking to put them back in. one of the first signs of the broken intake is mid rpm missfires. The removal of the flaps causes turbulance that results in issues at idle and poor driving part throttle and low throttle mid rpm conditions.

If your intake was bad enough you might have already been experiencing these things so the car might not run any worse without the flaps but all in all its completly less then ideal

Over all your better with no flaps then with broken flaps as clearly getting flaps in the motor is bad for the motor and in some cases some people dont know how to epoxy the intake flaps shut so your left with no other choice. So it was good you did but you saying what you did about the short runner is like having no flaps at all and that removing the flaps would have no effect at all was just grossly inaccurate

#8

Before pulling the flaps out I studied the position the flaps are in for the short runner.
Essentially they move out of the way to allow air into the shorter path. Air will nto want to travel around the long path with the short exposed. It allows an air path on top and below the flap essentially to “guide” air into the short runner, however with the flaps removed this is similar to having an open runner into a plenum which is essentially what is happening with the flaps in the open position.
Like mentioned earlier, I need a new manifold as I dont like having features of the car not working, especially engine function features, however for now it will have to be in open short mode only. Will report back either way. Should be all done after this week.

I dont expect the car to run perfect, but at least Im not exposing it to cylinder imbalance and more parts getting chewed up in it like already has happened. just fingers crossed at this point.

#9

I didnt want to come off harsh and I re read my post it might have been a bit harsh It obviously looks like you didnt take it that way and I apprechate it. My goal is never to make a soap box argument but to make sure the people who are reading the forum for direction have good information and understand what they are getting into.

And to a point I dont think you fully understand what your saying as it seems to some degree your trying to over simplify this by not possibly understanding a few things

As mentioned the flaps dont just guide they close off the other runner and an open plenum intake is completly different in how it functions. the concerns here are pulse pull on the longer runner and pulse run on the shorter runner. Both the long and short runners converge at some point and I think your missing that point all together. So with no flaps its going to be pulling from both runners as again they both have to intersect. this causes turbulence and poor part throttle low throttle hi load runniing and in most cases missfires.

Again the only reason Im making such a big point is that several people have come to the same conclusion you have only to wonder why and quickly realize the car has more issues with the flaps removed than it did with just the broken flaps. When you dont equate for how your creating turbulence from having air pull from two different spots trying to converge in the same runner. Things add up just very easy but again thats not the case.

Whats my entire point. Its ALWAYS better to try and epoxy your flaps and leave them in if you can. Its better to always try and take the time to keep the long runner functional. Everything from dyno proof to the fact that 90% of your driving is done on the long runner and countless reports about driveability and long term issues I think its every irresponsible to try and lend a conversation other wise when thats just not the case.

will removing the flaps have a negitive effect – YES
Is the open position using the short runner the same as having no flaps at all – no not even close
Is having no flaps just making the car closer to being a open plenum – no… even open plenum intakes use velocity stacks to help and dont run into the same pulse collection issues

Again you possibly had no other choice and removing the flaps all together makes more sense then having more bits fly into your motor and if you are not able or dont know how to epoxy the flaps shut this is going to be the best thing to do. Is the car going to not run is it going to be undrivable… no the car will run it will be totally usable but… Its important that people know the facts before they take out parts. And all in all depending on how bad and how many broken flaps you had the car is going to drive little to no different to you as you have probably been driving on the equilivent of no flaps for a while.

again great work on doing this yourself. This is not easy work and its easy for me to say people should do this or that. I have epoxyed a few intakes for people and when this is your major use of transportation you have to do what you have to do. All I care about is making sure that everyone that reads these threads is getting good information and knows what the down falls are and what they are getting into.

Keep us posted on your progress and again know I think your doing a great job I just want to make sure you and everyone reading knows FACTUALLY what your getting into when you pull all the flaps out

#10

Good info Justin, and Greg good on you to be taking this on yourself, if taking out was the only/feasible option until replacing.

#11

Justin, I dont think there are people on this forum that try to make personal attacks and make things personal. I do not take it as such, and I like to keep discussions to a purely theoretical and technical nature.

Again, to me-looking at how the flaps worked in the open (short) position, they do not cover the long runner at all. Essentially the just uncover the short path and thats it…the long path is still open to the inner plenum. In teh closed (long runner) position they form a nice seal to completely seal off the short path, so the air can only go through the long path. But with the short path exposed, the only thing keeping air from going through the long path is the fact that air will travel in the easiest direction, straight down the short runner. Nothing else directing air into the short runner itself.

I dont think I have time today, but sometime this week ill collect a few pieces and place them back into the manifold to demonstrate what I am talking about.

Again, Im not advocating removing them, but to me, with a broken flap, and broken linkages, Id rather gut it, lose some torque, but still have a functioning car while i allocate money to a new manifold down the line to have a 100% functioning car again. Definitely not too hard to pull the manifold once you have done it once.

#12

What size socket for the alternator bolt?
Also is it best accessed from the bottom? dont think there is even space between the rad and engine to get at it from the top…
Turn clockwise i assume?

#13

24mm or 27mm, should have room from the bottom… Sorry I can’t be exact on the bolt size, did this a few months ago. Clockwise works, and you can go back counter clockwise to close them if you go a little past.

When I did my carbon clean I removed the spark plugs, just made the turning easier.

Are you using the oven cleaner? If so look for the non-aerosol spray, much easier to control.

Lastly did you buy the oil filter housing gasket for the line that attached under the intake? These are known to leak and would be a good idea to replace while you’re in there… it’s a cheap oring.

#14

do you have a PN for that O ring? I do need to replace that for sure. I do have oil in the valley from…somewhere, definitely want to do whatever i can while im in there.

Thanks!

#15

O-ring part number is: 079103121BE

Check out audi genuine parts… they have good diagrams of where components are too.

In this diagram the o-ring is number 19.
https://genuineaudiparts.com/parts/2007/Audi/S6/Base?siteid=214407&vehicleid=188489&diagram=1352271