Revo stage 1+ first time at track

B8 S4
#21

drob, I’m no tuner so my thoughts are just based on seeing quite a few logs…

bgm shared logs with me previously and he had timing pull, no doubt these don’t… All other tuners show timing pull and I have some logs where my IAT’s were in the 40’s, less timing and still pull… Based on this something is up… bgm would need to do more testing say several back to back 4th gear pulls but honestly I’m not going to ask him to do that nor do I think he should… Overall, during most of the run his timing is not terribly high for a 104 tune but the spikes are what concern me and more so why they happen?

Revo may be using the boost dump with high timing during shifting vs more normal timing and no boost dump by others. I’d say Revo has a small sample size but based on APR/GIAC I’d say I prefer the way they do it… Just think if someone runs pump gas on this tune(I know they’re an idiot in the first place) but there would be no pull and you’d still hit these timing values so that could be trouble… I’ve run 104 tune with 100 gas as an experiment in the past and saw a ton of timing pull 7+ degrees… Also, even with 104 fuel as these IAT’s continue to climb if he kept making back to back passes there is no way to protect the motor, I doubt bypass will do it… He is seeing bypass at some other shift points but not tons and the orange section is what I thought was him using LC?

Again, not a tuner bu we’ve seen how this strategy has worked in the past, not saying his motor is going to blow but those IAT’s and that high timing with no retard would make me nervous… Also, even though it was very hot I expected lower IAT’s I wonder if he has air in his system? Sure this could be their “protection” strategy…

#22

I hit 72 degrees c on my intake temp on my 4th pull the other day. Mind you I was running the car from 2nd gear at 30mph to 130mph in 5th for 4 consecutive runs. I had 91 octane and was running he 93 tune. Little to no timing pull. -4 degrees max, not at redline either.

#23

Couple things. first i am not sure whats going on with the intake. its a Strat(roc euro) intake so that is already open element. I removed the snow screen as been suggested so not sure what else i can do other than cut a hole in my hood hahah… i may try and get some 3rd gear runs tonight while there is still 104 in the tank.
air in the system could be a problem however this didnt seem to be a problem last time I ran. Is there a way to check. when i installed the AWE i bled from the top of the core is there another point i should try? maybe i should try that again? if you guys have any instructions i can try that out before i log later.
since i did the install myself i have been checking for leaks and coolant levels all the time and so far so good.

#24

oh and most of these runs are one after the other. Track was pretty empty so it was go as you wanted. the launch control run was 8:48 and the next run when 8:53. first run was after taking the drive out there so 45 min at 80+ mph. i know these are still really high and something is up

#25

Then I guess mine are high to? I never thought they were.

Car ran 11.64@119.7 and the system hasn’t been changed since.

#26

Jeff, Understood on the IAT’s but 4 degrees is quite a bit on a pump tune that is making what 17-19ish? That’s 20%+…

bgm, sorry I forgot that you do have an intake… It could be the very high humidity with the amount of moisture in the air… I ran in some bad conditions recently and will do some 4th gear air mass comparisons and let you know what I see… Sorry, can’t help on bleeding the system… There are some bleeders you can buy on Amazon that use a compressor but I didn’t go that route with my cap issue as I talked with infinkc and since my resevoir didn’t run dry he and others felt I wouldn’t need to bleed the system… Haven’t drive the car much since I fixed it but I plan to keep an eye on it…

If you log and do some pulls include “misfire detection; misfire totaliser”, I think you can see the count on the computer screen as vag come is logging so just keep an eye on that and if you see that # grow don’t push it anymore…

#27

earlier in this thread it was mentioned that an APR stage 3 B8 S4 in black was at Waterfest, with a dyno sheet. Is that posted here somewhere? Can’t remember seeing it…

#28

there was a black DSG S4 and Arins white one at WF. i had a picture of it but here is the one that someone else took

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/517989-Teaser-APR-3-0-TFSI-Stage-III-Supercharger-System/page82

#29

thanks. Looks weird using stock numbers and back-converting. Wish they’d just show hub dyno stock vs. stage 2 vs. stage 3 as well as conditions for each.

#30

It does seem pretty strange that it is opening the bypass valve, and there is no knock/timing pull. That doesn’t seem right, and I have a hard time believing that is “normal”. Intake temps are not terrible (I can get in the 80C’s when at the strip here…), but I would expect to see timing being pulled if they were really trying to cut back on the stress on the engine as opposed to using boost bypass. Especially since timing is pretty high to start with given the conditions. Do you know if your 93 tune does the same thing?

With that said, those times are in-line with my 100 octane times. As mentioned above, it’s been hot here on all my passes; upper 80F’s with 2500-3000 DA. However, I am seeing no bypass, lower overall timing, and buttload more knock/timing pull. I guess you could argue there are many ways to skin a cat, but I think it’s been pretty well proven that keeping the bypass valve shut, and properly using the knock sensors makes more sense on many levels.

#31

The shifting was def an issue on these runs. My last time at this track with similar conditions I was running 12.2-12.3 at 114 mph. I did have a chance to run a 2012 s4 DSG. He had apr stage 2, intake, and coolant res. he was running 93 octane and was consistent at 12.8. If the weather holds out i am going to do some logs and will switch to 93 map during.

#32

I wonder what the timing strategy looks like for turbo applications. Where wastegate and blow off valve control are necessary. A scenario where the ecu is forced to articulate the manifold pressure to prevent the turbo from surging or other failure modes. So maybe revo is just tuning this like a turbo motor…

#33

Hey guys,
been a while since I have posted but been very busy. since the last posting i have been through a 2 month battle with REVO on the DSG tune. I have since had the DSG tune removed and been issued a refund. its very unfortunate since there was a few things that i really liked about it. but the negatives were just too much of a risk with this transmission. After removing the tune i was able to get 12.123 @115.39 with a DA of 231. this was race map and 100 in the tank.
yesterday i went to Island to try some more runs. DA was not as good around 500. I didnt plan this trip so i had about 1/4 tank of 93 when i got there. First and second run on 93 were both right around
12.388 @ 113.24, 60 1.797, 330 5.288, 1/8 7.998, 1000 10.382
I then got a 5 gallon of Shell 104. put it all in and left the track and drove 5 miles to mix and get it in the system before my run. Used the SPS to change to race map and headed back. first was 12.297 @114.50 and second the DSG hesitated on the 2-3 shift and ended up with a 12.53. DA on both runs was around 575.
i played around with the Logs this morning and posted them here.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3oCJQkRf8fOdExPb25EUm5JNTg/view?usp=sharing

first was on 93 second set was my run with the messed up shift.

Bought an extra can of 104 so next time i will be driving to the track with only that in the tank. if that doesnt do the trick next summer i am jumping ship to GIAC

#34

moral of the story? Run the 93 tune. Ignore the race tune.

Post your results and slips for both visits up in the revolutionary results thread in the drag racing subforum.

thanks

#35

normally i have very good results with the race tune. I think my issue this time was having too much 93 left so the octane was not high enough. The time i had my best results I had arrived to the track on fumes (15 miles after “0 miles to empty”) filled with 3 gallons of 100 and was getting good results.
this time i had 1/4 tank of 93 and added 5 of 104 so my mix was prob somewhere around 97-98

#36

Judging by your tone, you probably don’t want to divulge, but would you mind posting the details of the issues experienced with the DSG tune? Assuming this was something to do with normal driveability? I can definitely empathize with not wanting to create problems on a transmission that is already riddled with potential problems.

#37

IATs on those runs are high and we are seeing the crazy bypass dump associated with it. I guess that is how they are tuning the cars. Not a fan.

that results in the much lower boost levels than GIAC and APR and lower MAF readings. do you have an open intake?

GIAC/APR stage 2 cars that I logged would hit 1500+ kg/hr for MAF here on east coast/sea level runs and 17-18psi depending on what gear we logged.

#38

I don’t mind anymore as i have my money back now. I was one of the first to get it and so they had to scan my car and then send the files off to be adjusted. supposedly they had to do it with each variation of trans and software revision. 2 weeks later the file was done and got it flashed. so i was happy that my car was the actual file that it was built off for that trans/version figured best case. after leaving i put in Dynamic and immediately noticed much more downshifting. I was going to track in a few days so i never tried out LC till then. as promised it reved to 4k but once i let off the break nothing after about 5 seconds car launched hard. besides that the car was very sporadic on shifts. lost about .5 seconds on my few runs.
the car would also auto upshift in all gears. I didnt care about this but just proved that nothing actually worked with it.
the worst/dangerous part was the car would sometimes not downshift at all. i would be driving in auto no paddle shifts and get to a stop. go to accelerate and the car would jolt like i was about to stall a manual car. this happens a bunch of times. I was in constant contact with the shop and REVO but I never got a satisfactory answer. more of the “it works with all the other cars” “we are working on something”
I went in to have the car logged. i went back for a re flash still same issues
i asked numerous times if they are working on a fix or not ans mostly got the “we are visiting Europe” excuse. I finally demanded it off so i could run it at Etown for the Audi show. they took it off and said they would let me know about fix or refund. i kept waiting and nothing on the fix so i wanted a refund. at that point they made me go to the shop to reflash the car to “prove” that there was issues. 3 hours later i had finally had a check and was on my way.

#39

To date I’ve not had nearly the problems…fortunately! So far Just a couple of LC fails. Car has about 3000 miles on it since install. Hey you got your money back, good for you.

#40

Thanks for the feedback, really helpful to everyone thinking about getting DSG software. I haven’t heard any drivability concerns from the GIAC DSG guys, so that doesn’t sound right. Sounds like a combination of the software not running correct and them being dismissive (trying to steer you away by making you jump through hoops). Glad it worked out for you in the end.

Just to be clear, you have a B8, correct? The B8.5 has slightly taller gears which should make the clutch control slightly easier to modulate by the computer.