RS4 after 2013 s4 w/dsg

B6/7 S4/RS4
#1

Sold my K04’d B7 A4 last fall with the intention of finally getting an RS4. Unfortunately I jumped the gun and most of the RS4s available were pretty crappy or high mileage at the time so my wife talked me into a CPO 2013 S4 instead… because warranty. ::slight_smile:

So before I go blow the warranty away with a tune on my S4…

Anyone switch between the two? Can’t stop thinking about the damned RS4 even though I’m pretty sure it’s too late at this point. Am I setting myself up for disappointment if I go spend more than I should for a low mileage RS4 after a B8.5 S4 with DSG? Hard to find seats that don’t look too worn at this point or decent mileage that doesn’t come with a +$40k asking price.

#2

The s4 is nice, but i see a lot of them. The rs4 is timeless and not what I would call a “me too” car. If you truly want to stand out, own something that is a bit of a unicorn in the high revving v8 world do it! My Rs4 never disappoints me. Sure the s4 with mods can be faster, but you cant mistake that sound from the rs4. I dont think you will be disappointed either way.

#3

If you take your time and look I think you can find the RS4 your looking for. It will just take time. If you have a warranty on the S4 I would just drive it and leave it alone. If you go down the road of modification than you loose your warranty and then whats the point.

I have been in a few B8 S4s and they are fun but I have been in several RS4s and they are a blast. Performance wise there is no shortage of parts for either. But the RS4 has more appeal and will not only hold more value it is really a collector car and will at some point start to go up in price. Now with almost all cars going Audimatic of some sort the manual cars are getting to be more rare and more valuable.

Modification wise JHM has a ton of parts that are proven and will put you in whatever performance range you want. The S4 has a long list of parts as well but it looks like the S4 is more limited to a certian point with options outside of just putting pulleys on the car.

#4

Good points fellas.

From pure observation over the past several years: RS4>B8/.5 S4 Manual/Auto

I’ve seen folks go from B7 RS4 into B8/.5 S4 and nothing, but regret. Some even to the point where they dumped B8/.5 and got back into B7 RS4.
I also have seen folks jump from B8/.5 S4 into RS4 and were very happy.

I’m not ragging on B8/.5 S4 as it is very capable car and nicely optioned with new tech. It is what it is.

Best advice I could give you, go test drive one and see for yourself.

#5

So I found an RS4 in wonderful condition with low km. Test drove it. The engine sounds so good. Comfort level is still pretty good for being older compared to the B8.5. I drove it in the dark though and you can really tell the age in the gauges at night.

The asking prices for decent low km cars here though are stupid high. Sub 100k km cars seem to ask $40-$50k still and they sit for sale a long time. Cars over 100k km have been listed around $25k and most of them have been listed since the beginning of summer. Which tells me they are obviously worth less. I currently have 14 cars to choose from locally. Its been mostly the same cars since the start of summer, and some of these I actually looked at this time last year. With no adjustment in price.

I think the v8 and the wide body are the things that really attract me. Things in perspective, for another $10-15k I could walk away with a 2013-2014 CPO S7. But its such a boat. A sexy boat.

#6

I would stick with the B8 S4. They’re excellent cars. The RS4 is awesome, and special, rare, exciting sounding, serious looking etc… but I think they’re a bit long in the tooth now to jump in to one. The last ones were produced OVER 8 years ago.

So you’re likely buying a 9 year old car. The technology in it is fine, I don’t find myself wishing I had something newer. The performance when stock is virtually identical to a stock B8. So I dont’ think anything is going to really move the needle for you considering the RS4 won’t be much cheaper than a used 3 year old B8 S4 (not crazily cheaper) and you’ll potentially just be taking on some headaches.

Your wife is smart.

On another note, some will say ‘with mods the S4 is faster’. They’re not thinking straight.

Stock for stock they’re about the same.

full bolt ons on still naturally aspirated on pump gas (aka the gas we all use in your cars every day) the RS4 gets down into the low low 12s. There are 4 that went 12.2 and one was 12.21. They trap in the low teens…similar to the B8 on pump gas, although the B8 does have an edge with one or two sneaking into the 11s by a sliver at 115ish.

Someone with a B8 and about $8,000 into the car (lw wheels, lw rotors, tune, exhaust, pulley, pulley, DSG tune) and running on race gas can get well into the 11s.

The RS4 with an $8000 JHM supercharger kit also gets well into the 11s…but it does it on pump gas. Want an intercooled setup and some race gas? you’re in the 10s in the RS4. No B8 S4 can keep up with supercharged RS4s that trap 130-132.

So they’re both awesome. Very different ways to do it. I would just stick with what you’ve got. Want a V8 killer? Just get an RS5 in 2 years. They’ll be $40,000 and you get the beauty of a high revving V8, but with the brilliant DSG transmission.

#7

While I do agree with the comparison and my preference is the RS4 over the B8 S4, but I think it’s also relevant to mention the RS4 with the S/C is probably going to require a clutch/fw upgrade with a S/C. Granted that is somewhat a maintenance item, it’s still a pretty expensive part of going from stock to S/C (~$1800). And I’d guess there are probably little to no S/C RS4’s with full stock exhaust so a catback is at minimum another grand.

Finally, I’d imagine install cost for S/C RS4 build is also a fair bit more expensive if done by a shop vs comparing B8 S4 to RS4. I’d guess you have $1500 in install to take a stock S4 to full bolt on labor cost, but the RS4 (with clutch) if done through a regular shop would probably be $3-4k. I haven’t currently priced out either of those so I could be off, but I know the S/C install can be intensive, whereas the B8 S4 stuff is mostly more common maintenance jobs done by shops already.

The RS5 is a game changer all together though.

#8

My friend is selling his w 75k miles for 30$k and it comes w some mods:) air lift and all

#9

[quote=“Maddog,post:7,topic:9078”]
I agree. Can’t wait to get one and play with it.


http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/IMG_75831_zpscrwgd4hv.png

#10

Jimmy thats a great picture.

#11

I test drove the RS5 too. It’s a good mix of the two for the most part. Just don’t feel it’s as practical as I’d like it to be with a family.

Guess I will just stay the course and wait a year or so for the face lift S7 to take its initial depreciation hit and grab a CPO. Damn the B7 RS4 and its infinite just out of reach status.

#12

says who? guys selling clutches, sure. I don’t know of anyone who destroyed a stock clutch with a supercharger (who wasn’t already prone to destroying clutches while stock/tuned). My stock clutch has 95,000 miles on it it. You’ve seen my videos. I think the stock clutch is a lot stronger than people think.

Also a JHM kit isn’t going to slam your driveline with a torque smash down low. It’s a top end gamechanger, but that’s not where clutches lose their lunch.

[quote]Finally, I’d imagine install cost for S/C RS4 build is also a fair bit more expensive if done by a shop vs comparing B8 S4 to RS4. I’d guess you have $1500 in install to take a stock S4 to full bolt on labor cost, but the RS4 (with clutch) if done through a regular shop would probably be $3-4k.
[/quote]
I’m not sure where you got $4,000 to install…JHM charges barely a third of that. Also don’t forget there are half a dozen guys on this site who have installed their own supercharger.

#13

Thanks but I didn’t take it. There was a photographer at the dragstrip event that I went to with Auditude and Tsivas27 that took that picture. It kind of went Instagram famous so much that my friend, the owner of the car, sent it to me because it got put on Audi’s website and plastered all over the place.

The RS5 definitely isn’t practical for a family. I would rather have a S6 with a family until the 35K or 75K service comes up and then Audi Care/Care Plus here I come! Maintenance sucks on a C7 S6/S7 at those intervals and that is saying something when compared to the RS5, lol.

#14

his plate is hilarious

#15

I wasn’t trying to say the S/C will instantly destroy a RS4 clutch, but I’m sure JHM will tell you a S/C on the RS4 certainly pushes the limit of the stock clutch and to potentially budget it as a replacement/upgrade. It may be the pressure plate issue that becomes more evident first rather than the actual clutch failing. I don’t know if the PP issue is the same risk on all RS4 clutches, but the extra power certainly makes it more prone to being an issue as we’ve seen a couple times on the boosted S4’s & RS4’s with the RS4 clutch.

I was taking a guess at an install price through a regular performance shop for a S/C install + Clutch/FW + Catback. I figure with the entire front core off + AC relocation, a regular shop would be at $1500-2000 for the S/C. Then another ~$800 for clutch install, and ~$200-300 for catback install. Put it all together with tax and you’re in the ballpark I mentioned.

I know JHM would be able to do that cheaper and faster, but if a clutch is done as well, surely you’d be at least at $2500 for everything installed labor wise.

If JHM fully supports the stock clutch for the boosted RS4 then its a settled debate, but I’ve never actually asked them.

#16

as I said, you’re adding stuff that is supernumerary and not relevant to the discussion.

We’re talking about a supercharger. not a clutch.

You think B8 S4 guys with manual cars aren’t installing clutches when they start making 375 wtq? How about the DSG guys with transmission problems and needing new mechatronic unit…you going to add that in?

The discussion was around the facts of performance and costs. Your logic is not fairly examining the facts.

While many RS4s need new clutches when they get supercharged or tune/exhaust etc. many more don’t. Further, many bone stock RS4s need new clutches…because people suck at driving.

My car has 90,000 miles on the stock clutch and has literally never had a problem. It has a full exhaust and probably makes about 20 whp/20 wtq more than a stock RS4. Would adding another 50 wtq to the car destroy the clutch? I laught at that thought.

My car has made about 300 fullbore launches from a stop. 200 timeslips are in a folder in my house. 99.9999% of supercharger buyers are not like me. They will never put even 1% of the pressure on their cars that I do. What they will do however is slip the clutch on high RPM shifts which DESTROYS the clutch in months. People just fucking suck at driving…You’ve seen the videos of the RS4 guys. I think I posted a thread about this explaining why so many RS4 owners destroy their clutch. It’s not the clutch. It’s the guys.

Further, supercharger buyers will not launch their cars. Survey them. I bet you of the 250 or so supercharged RS4 owners maybe 10 of them have ever gone to a dragstrip. Of those, 8 went once and will never return and a couple have gone a couple of times. I literally can’t even name you a single RS4 owner with an SC who went 2x. Just JHM and their development car but that doesn’t count.

Since they’re not launching, if RS4 owners are blowing clutches by just accelerating and ripping through the gears at high RPMs I’ve got news for you, it’s the driver, not the clutch that is failing. They’re slipping and destroying it.

and you’re wrong about Supercharged RS4s all having exhaust.

One of the fastest stage 1 time ever run was a car with gutted downpipes and stock catback.

There’s a few RS4s with piggies and stock catback , notably the APR 1320 car that was the first in the 11s…and there’s a JHM Stage 1+ intercooled car on this site that has stock catback and piggies.

Further, why is this the price of supercharging? Your logic that a V8 REQUIRES a 2.5" exhaust when supercharged…but a 3.0 V6 does not makes no sense.

So let’s focus on the facts.

for $8000 you get a JHM stage 1 kit, or about 9500 installed
for free you get piggies and keep your stock catback, with valves
you now have an 11 second car that will kick the shit out of any B8 S4 on earth on 93 octane fuel