RS4 smoke issues and dealer results

B6/7 S4/RS4
#1

Sorry, been MIA for a few days. Here’s an update - since the tech’s were having a hard time determining the culprit they called the Audi Tech line (they call it “engineering support” now at my dealer). After the tech described the symptoms the FIRST thing the tech line support guy said was “does the vehicle owner have cats in tact or are they removed?” I can’t believe they asked that. At any rate the tech was instructed to check and discovered I was catless. Long story short, I’ve since built a relationship with the Service manager and he told me to take the car back, swap the OEM DP’s I still had (with all 4 cats still in tact) back in. Then reschedule an appt so they could continue diagnosing without the potential for BS from anyone. My next appt is this Wed and they will be performing an oil consumption test. At least if something is seriously wrong I don’t have to worry about Fidelity/JM&A denying my claim since I am now virtually stock (no tune / have cats back in.) Good news is the Service manager said even though the info regarding me being catless is in AoA’s system, he doesn’t have to share any info with the 3rd party warranty guy on that topic. He will instruct the tech to just give the warranty guy pertinent details about my symptoms and leave out the part that I was once catless.

I know being catless wouldn’t be grounds for a claim to be denied - but - why go through the headache if I don’t have to?

Will update more when I get the car back.

#2

Great update.

While I can’t go too far into my background (for obvious reasons)

I can say this.

The Audi tech system works like this. You have the standard wrench guys. The One shop tech that shop tech needs to report to the Audi hot line when there needs to be certain warranty work. In a case like yours. Chances are there is some possible damage or a issue Audi can’t figure out. When this happens Audi looks for scapegoats. Things like cats clutches exhaust Etc. They then will blame all the issues on the car not having its 100% OEM equipment and then they can wash there hands.

While I don’t have hard numbers on this. It seems a few RS4’s have had carbon damage that led to motor damage from carbon debris. So while it still could be the PCV system and the oil separator the good thing is now you have the 3rd party warranty involved so that’s good.

Its always great to have the service guys on your side. They can build or bust a deal for you.

#3

All great info and agreed concerning having the Service people on your side.

Small update: I dropped of my car last week so they could perform the oil consumption test. While it was there I mentioned I had seen tiny coolant droplet stains in my engine bay (from the last visit.) I asked them why they opened the coolant system and they said they didn’t, “it was due to the system being overfilled.” Laughable imo, only because the last people to fill the coolant system was them! I had requested a coolant flush about 6 months ago, no problems since. Anyway I think I figured out why - they had to replace portions of the PCV system during the previous visit and I bet they had to move the overflow tank out of the way to allow better access etc. I’d also bet the tube was diconnected inadvertantly while the tech was moving it. Who knows, not that important. This led to them performing a coolant pressure test to check for leaks…which leads me to my minor update.

The update comes with a question. When they called me and said the car was ready for pick-up I came right down and got the car. Service had just closed so I had to get my keys from sales. When I started my car I thought they added 007 features. I shit you not. I filled half the parking lot with white smoke in a matter of 1 minute. Just idling. I figured it would subside…NOPE…I fuggin smoked the whole way home like my trunk was on fire. Seriously, a ton of smoke - as in people who were behind me were leaving bus lengths of distance between us just so they could see what the hell was in front of them. I would have left the car there and taken the loaner back but service was closed and the sales woman put the loaner key in a lock box for the night.

Here is my question; since the oil consumption test I believe is simply an oil change with a carefully measured amount put back in…could the coolant pressure test been the route cause of the smoke? I’m hoping this latest episode will help determine what is causing the smoke. I’ve never seen this much smoke before so it seems whatever tests or work was performed while the car was at the dealer seems to have exploited the issue it was originally in for. Thoughts?

#4

Forgot to mention…the very next day the smoke literally cleared up. Has been smoke free since. I’m dropping the car off tomorrow to be torn down and looked into. I wrote an email to the SM letting him know my experience driving home and he said we can skip the oil consumption test and they will tear into it this week to resolve what ever the issue is.

#5

Great keep the updates coming. The smoke was most likely due to when they pressure tested the system. The PCV system ended up back filling and creating the smoke you saw.

#6

After a lot of back and forth banter I finally had the dealer agree I shouldn’t have to jump through hoops any more. They are supposed to be removing the head on the driver’s side this week to investigate. I haven’t received any updates yet so I’m not sure where they are as far as diagnosing. Since they told me the warranty company will try and find anything to avoid approving this claim my SA said he would go to bat for me since I have been following his lead/suggestions along the way. This is the main reason why I’m not calling him and inquiring what the status is.

I figure if he is battling this out on my behalf…let him do his thing and get back to me when he has time. If I don’t hear anything by Monday I’ll probably give him a call. I dropped the car off last Monday - as in July 25th so they’ve had the car for a decent amount of time at this point.

Since then I’ve been in once to swap loaner cars at their request. The one I had was due to come off the road to go into inventory, good news is I was able to get a new fully loaded 6sp A4. A hell of lot less boring than the auto I was driving. What a different animal than the RS4. To say I’ll be glad to get my car back is an understatement. While I happen to like quite a few things on the new A4 there are other items I much prefer on my RS4.

I’ll update here again once I receive info from the dealer.

#7

man sounds crazy. great updates tho sounds like your not going to be able to get any pictures. I would love to see whats going on.

#8

The mayhem continues. I have “valve guide leakage.” No one told me if is the seals or what - that’s all the detail I got. I was also told by my SA that JM&A is going to “pass” on this claim. I of course call JM&A myself to speak with them. I received different info from them. JM&A claims because the dealership has not shown them a “failure” only a “result” they have closed the claim for now. Not denied it but closed it. Fun stuff. Then I ask why they would be replacing my motor instead of just replacing my heads…silence…crickets…JM&A rep responds: “oh, yeah, we will a, a, aaaaa, yeah we would just replace the heads, please hold.” WTF? Comes back on and says “get your dealer to show us something that failed. We can’t tell them how to do their job.”

I call dealer and speak to the SM - good guy - fill him in and he is pissed. He says “you never should have had to call them, I’m calling them now. Be back to you in a few.”

So here I am, wondering if I will have my heads replaced for $12K under warranty or not. I even reached out to Ben who had an opportunity to buy his scored motor back for $4K as a back up plan. I would have swapped the heads from that motor if needed and saved a ton if I got denied. Unfortunately that motor is no longer available.

Fingers crossed.

#9

Holy shit dude! What a mess…

Gotta love people that like toying people around just to what they want and not give a hoot about your own personal vehicle.

but yeah, fingers crossed.

#10

Man sounds like you have a great dealer service guy. Ill PM the Audi Techs that help on this site and see if there is anything they can do to help you out. It sounds like you guy has it but man warranty companys are really a PITA.

For refrence for future RS4 owners. Can you post A video on This site and make sure to lable it leaking valve seal issue. It would be helpfull to owners in the future if we stat to catalog the difference between scored walls and valve seal leaks and what it looks like.

#11

Yeah the service manager guy I deal with is a good guy. I’ve been pretty frank with him on some issues and he understands where I’m coming from. I think he knows I’ve been fair and patient and at some point I just wanted to have my car back to 100% health and move on without all the back and forth hoop jumping the warranty company was causing.

I will definitely try and take photos and or video. Not sure what the policy is at my dealership but I’ll ask if I can. If so, it will be posted here. I’d like to see the block with the heads removed, the leaking portions, the new heads etc.

If I had the extra cash I would have purchased the engine from Ben with the scored wall. I would have stripped that thing down to the ity bits for discovery purposes. Plus I would have a set of perfectly good heads to swap into my bum motor! Oh well.

#12

Valve guide leak WOHH why didn’t I see that. This is more common then you think. To be honest the RS4s all have little issues with the guides leaking from what Ive seen. Once you open the car up power wise and are able to bring on more air your going to be able to obviously pull more past the valve guide.

It would be great if you can get some pictures or footage of the motor. From a technical position I would like to see how this stacks up.

From Audi’s point of view I doubt that your tech will let you or if he will take pictures. I would just ask to look at the damaged motor when its apart. This way no one should have any issues. You had said your service guy is open and easy to get along with so I would think he should be ok with you looking around.

#13

It’s crazy how some things seem so obvious after the fact - my brother had the same reaction you did…“why didn’t I think of that?” I didn’t realize this was common on the RS4’s, now that I do I 100% agree about the more power comment exploiting the issue further. Makes sense. Problem is, even with new heads, if I decide to add the power bits back on (tune etc) I would be heading down the same path over time I’d imagine?

I’ll try, not sure how the dealer will react to my request though.

That’s my assumption, I’m thinking it wouldn’t be common for them to allow this type of request. it just opens possibilities for potential bad things to come of it. Either way I’ll inquire.

#14

If you bought the car new and took care of it oil changes on time and such then I would just look over your service intervals and oil selection.

I would chalk this up to the past owner having the car and not treating it properly…Well that is if your the second owner.

Most stuff like valve seals are from brake-in of the motor and components. Lack of oil or starvation of oil can weaken the seal and cause issues.

I don’t see this happening again with good maintenance and proper procedures for warming up and cooling down the motor

#15

I’m the second owner and I do have the previous owner’s records. He basically followed the maintenance in the manual to a “T” but those OCI’s are lengthy. I have no idea if he broke the motor in properly or was dilligent when it came to allowing the motor to warm up, (take it easy until the oil temps were up above 150 - 170, don’t romp on the throttle until oil temps are 195+ etc.)

I’ve been religiously doing 3k - 4K (more often than not 3K) oil changes. I had Audi care up until 45K I think so I was using Lubro Molly between dealer changes and now I use Motul. I was able to source the older Motul oil that was 100% ester based - helps with fuel dilution and some other items related to FSI motors.

The other maintenance stuff I do more often than recomended - air filter, plugs, fuel filter, rear diff fluid, trans/front diff fluid, flushed the coolant every 12 months, grease bushings, grease the zirk fittings on my sway bars bla bla. I’m kind of a nazi when it comes to maintenance.

Hopefully the new heads will bring her back to where she should be. I’m assuming the techs will do a thorough job inspecting other areas while the heads are off so if there were evidence of other problem areas they could be addressed while the motor is out. Of course, I’ll have to inquire to ensure that is being done ;D.

I’ll continue to update as I receive info. Thanks for the help & support thus far.

#16

NY07RS4 I have to say I really value you keeping us all uptodate on the progress. I had a little oil puff on iddle just before I got the tune. JHM had me change my plugs and PCV unit. Since then the car hasn’t eaten a drop of oil so thanks to them for the suggestion.

I think its been asked before but I would love to see the video of your car with the leaky guide. SO the guys here can compair at the PCV Vs damaged aluminum walls Vs. guide damage.

#17

No problem man, I like sharing here as I receive helpful support and suggestions.

The video I had made of my car idling with smoke is very similar to the video Ben had shared. The only difference was my smoke was only exiting the driver’s side exhaust tips. I can’t find the one i made otherwise I’d post it here.

As far as the video I want to make or pictures I’d like to take of my engine while disassembled…my dealer said they don’t allow customers to take video or pictures. That being said, if I am called tomorrow with an update and asked to come in I will snap pics of the bad heads with my BB if possible. Meaning, if they are int he shop I’ll sneak a few quick pics if I can.

I haven’t heard a peep from my dealership since Friday the 5th. Not a single communication from them. I’m assuming the next communication I receive will be telling me to pick up the car because it is done. If the call is anything other than that I will be frustrated.

More to come…

#18

Yes Audi isn’t going to give access to anyone in the shop. There obviously are going to be the exceptions. From a dealership stand point its a liability to you and from Audis position they don’t want you to see what’s going on.

A video would be great to see. Pictures while nice are not going to show much. I don’t think your going to be able to capture a bad valve seal as its not a exposed part.

Still if you can take a picture no sense in not doing so, maybe we might catch something else.

Great updates, even better to hear your getting the support you need.

#19

The pictures I will try and take will be of the old heads - not so much for the bad valve guides (like you said they are encased in the head itself) but more so for the visual aspect. Just to share a picture of the heads while seperated from the engine. If I can, I will also attempt to take pictures of the engine without the heads installed. Then finally, some pics of the new clean heads assuming my warranty claim was approved and the parts are in.

Can you believe I still have not heard a peep from the dealership regarding my car?! It could literally be sitting in the shop not getting worked on this whole time… or could be almost done and being worked on… or could be done and ready for me to pick up…I have no clue. I think I’ve been patient by not bothering them or inquiring since Friday the 5th but I feel I deserve an update on the status. I’ll be calling them tomorrow.

#20

Thats how the dealer is. chances are your car is just sitting there. The warranty claim paperwork and the steps they have to go threw is quite extencive. I know my car sat for a week with no updates when I had a CEL code when I first got the car.